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PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 9:29 pm   Post subject:   

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Mike of the Ozarks,





Your right, if its higher than what they want to pay you get the old "We only pay $ XX.xx"



I wonder if they make a note that the Repairer's rate was $4.oo more than what's on the insurer est.? Or is it recorded as another Shop's Rate of $4.oo less than it really is? I wonder if insurance Co.s record that the Owner of the car (their insured) Paid the additional $4.00 per hour out of pocket?



But then there is no way of knowing without the insurer opening their Books and sending Collision Repair Shop's copies of the documentation that supports their claim. You know... to Prove their Honesty.



Surely they wouldn't object. After all... they see nothing wrong with demanding Collision Repair Shop's documentation that supports a "Body shops" claim. You know... to Prove their Honesty.



That's my 2¢ for now. ( maybe ± a couple ¢ ) Smile



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PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2009 12:13 pm   Post subject:   

Quote:
What is the point of a survey if they want to know what your current rates are, they already know. They had my address, they have my federal ID and they have my last rates on an estimate provided to a customer
Mike the surveys are typcially not done by the adjuster that is working in your area, it's usually done by some physical damage manager somewhere, and they can't try and track down an estimate from every shop in every little burg...
Quote:
Why don't they ask, what is your posted door rate, not the prevailing rate forced upon shops in our area. Or what is the rate you plan to use in the coming months to make a reasonable profit.
that IS what they are asking...what is your rate? means just that what is your door rate...the one posted in your shop when people walk in the door what rate do they see...If you don't participate then how on earth do you expect it to change? Kind like if you don't vote don't bitch...
Quote:
Your right, if its higher than what they want to pay you get the old "We only pay $ XX.xx"
and if every shop surveyed put this 'higher' 'door' rate in their surveys instead of tossing them, then they would have to raise the rate, as the 'prevailing' rate would be higher...



Fred and Mike, if you all want the rates raised to a higher amount...and you are contstantly complaining and belly aching about how ins companys don't pay enough ... but then you don't take the time to write down five numbers (body, mech, frame, refinish rates, paint and material)...and send it back so that it CAN increase...again...your arguement if moot...and gives the appearance that you'd rather complain than try and fix it...i just don't get that...

Quote:
I wonder if insurance Co.s record that the Owner of the car (their insured) Paid the additional $4.00 per hour out of pocket?
That's their choice...and most of the time, if the adjuster knows this, then yes it would be noted...but how does simply noting these things have ANYTHING to do with honesty?
Quote:
But then there is no way of knowing without the insurer opening their Books and sending Collision Repair Shop's copies of the documentation that supports their claim. You know... to Prove their Honesty.


supporting what claim? the shop rates? that's pretty easily located..
Quote:
After all... they see nothing wrong with demanding Collision Repair Shop's documentation that supports a "Body shops" claim. You know... to Prove their Honesty
Maybe that wouldn't be necessary if there were not so many fine upstanding folks, leading the industry with things like, 'tow and invoice wizard' or whatever the name is I can't remember but you know the product or have heard of it I'm sure.. Rolling Eyes


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2009 3:15 pm   Post subject:   

Quote:
Fred and Mike, if you all want the rates raised to a higher amount...and you are contstantly complaining and belly aching about how ins companys don't pay enough ... but then you don't take the time to write down five numbers (body, mech, frame, refinish rates, paint and material)...and send it back so that it CAN increase...again...your arguement if moot...and gives the appearance that you'd rather complain than try and fix it...i just don't get that...




Insurance companies do not pay myself or Fred, we bill the vehicle owner and the insurer indemnifies the policy holder or pays the third party damages. You can't seem to comprehend the fact that we choose not to be employed by the insurance industry and they do not owe us anything via any contractual agreements.



When it is required by statute that I comply by producing my internal rates for another industry to determine whether they choose to pay my door rate, I will comply. Until then I will not be a part of contributing to one companies discretionary and arbitrary decisions made without independent oversight. When insurers decide to publish their surveys and how they determine what they perceive to be the prevailing rate, I will reconsider.



Regarding surveys



www.bodyshopbusiness.com/Article/4181/Readers_Choice__Raising_Rates_Wi thout_Losing_Business.aspx


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 1:08 am   Post subject:   

Quote:
Insurance companies do not pay myself or Fred, we bill the vehicle owner and the insurer indemnifies the policy holder or pays the third party damages
Well boys then why don't you quit all the complaining?
Quote:
You can't seem to comprehend the fact that we choose not to be employed by the insurance industry and they do not owe us anything via any contractual agreements.
I've got that Mike, and don't have any issue with it at all. That being the case...why belly ache so much...? About how the insurance industry has ruined yours?


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 2:47 pm   Post subject:   

You know I really don't understand your reluctance to participate in these surveys, they are required by law in many states to set prevailing rates, in fact, i think it was ''your guys'' that have pushed for this...in fact ''claimed victory'' in getting it thru...Sounds to me you guys are bucking your own kind here...hmmmmmm

Quote:
Collision repair shops are claiming a victory in a recent court dispute over Rhode Island’s labor rate survey law.



In August, a Rhode Island Superior Court judge ruled that state law requires every insurance carrier in the state to conduct a labor rate survey and to use that data as the sole factor in determining rates. That ruling has already withstood one challenge from the Property Casualty Insurers Association of America (PCI).



“This is a big win for our industry,” says John Petrarca, president of the Auto Body Association of Rhode Island (ABARI) and owner of Providence Auto Body. “I think our labor rate law can serve as a model for other states, and there’s no question in my mind that we’re going to win on this issue.”

In Auto Body Association of Rhode Island vs. State of Rhode Island Department of Business Regulation (DBR), Superior Court judge Netti C. Vogel ruled that the statute applies to “every insurance carrier authorized to sell motor vehicle liability insurance in Rhode Island,” and that the labor rate survey was to be used as “the sole determinant of the prevailing auto body labor rate






This is RI, I'm trying to find others...but I 'know' that this is on the books in many states..(including i'm pretty sure Mike...good old MO Wink )..


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 2:49 pm   Post subject:   

I believe Fred and I are just opining facts and not whining or bellyaching; we're just pointing out the obvious for those that are not informed or in tune to the intricacies of the unholy marriage of the two industries that should not be. Both should be looking out and advocating for the consumer and not each other via secretive arrangements and agreements to possibly defraud policyholders. If the shoe does not fit you then don't where it, but it does fit a multitude in both industries. Some are playing by the rules determined by one industry instead of asserting their own. Nothing wrong with that unless one enjoys being subserviant to another.



Quote:
You know I really don't understand your reluctance to participate in these surveys, they are required by law in many states to set prevailing rates
,



In the above cases it is not the insurance industry that makes the rules on how the survey is conducted and who participates. In my state it's willy nilly and billy determining the rates at their personal whims.


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