by whestcide707 » Wed Sep 16, 2009 02:03 am
ok so i gave my19 yr old sister permission to drive my car to reno to go job hunting. while she was there she allowed her 17 yr old friend drive my car not knowing she was unlicensed. The friend rear ended a car and long story short my car is now sitting in a tow yard totalled. i reported it to my insurance and they tell me they are not liable for my car because the one driving it was not on my insurance..... so i talked to her parents and at first they took full responsibility told no matter what they would make sure it was all taken care of it. one week later i contact mom of sisters friend and she told me her insurance wont cover her daughter and that they arent giving me a dime. she told me to try to sue but i would loose because my sis gave her permission.!! so what do i do?? who is responsible? my sister didnt know she didnt have a license. Isnt her parents responsible because she is a minor?? i still owe 11thousand on my car.
Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 07:14 pm Post Subject:
I understand what you are saying. But every policy is different. In the case of when you were younger, the purchase of the vehicle has nothing to do with the insurance. In the case with this car dealer for example, the policy apparently does not give PU of listed drivers. The insurance denied the claim on both the coll and liab coverage. So in some instances, not all coverage can be denied in similar situations.
I also don't think you will find one under the collision coverage portion of the policy
Of course you wouldn't.
Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 07:32 pm Post Subject:
But every policy is different.
Here is what you mention in prior posts:
Policies do not cover "other" drivers
As I pointed out, the standard ISO certainly would provide the insured liability coverage. I can only quote the standard form. I'm not the one stating "Policies do not cover "other" drivers"... I can only point out that this is incorrect and why.Another statement:
Permissive use and negligent entrustment are not usually covered in a standard auto policy.
Again, can you quote any policy that excludes collision coverage for non-permissive use? I can't... as it does not exist in the standard ISO form. I also pointed out that it goes against the contract to excluded 1st party coverage for this reason. If you can provide a quote from any PAP that lists this exclusion, please feel free to post this.It seems like your assuming the insured's denial was correct and that the OP understood the conversation correctly. As we both probably know, we can tell someone one thing and they completely turn it around into a "denial" of the claim as a whole. In my post I'm telling he OP that he needs to confirm what is being denied and why.
As far as your dealer claim... the GK liability and GK collision coverage form has a different definition of an insured then the PAP. I'm guessing your stating that GK collision was denied to the insured. I could break out the GK collision form but that it a moot point... we are talking about a PAP in this situation. Apples to oranges (especially with the GK form).
Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 07:48 pm Post Subject:
We'll just have to leave it at that, we agree to disagree.
whestcide707 I hope you get this resolved fairly and quickly. Good luck!
Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 11:05 am Post Subject: insurance coverage
TRENCH....I just want to comment on what you are saying. At one time, I had ONLY 'Liability' on my vehicle. the only name, on my Insurance policy, was mine. However....my best friend drove my vehicle alot. She hit another car (about $550.00 worth of damage). According to my Insurance Co, she WAS covered. They paid out the money to the other driver. Maybe the 'rule' is different in different states..I don't know. Whoever drives my car is AUTOMATICALLY covered, whether I have 'Liability' or 'Collision........this is stated in my policy.
Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 01:02 pm Post Subject:
Just like any adjuster that's been at this for any length of time, I've handled a ton of these claims. They have ALWAYS been covered..(to the state min. on PD and BI), and if collision (or comp) on the vehicle it has been paid (in all the claims I've seen or worked) each and every time.
Tell ya' what let's see what a MO policy has to say.
Under coverages A and B
(Subject to the limits of our liability)
well, looks to me like both of those apply to this situation.We will pay damage fo an insured, if:
1) that insured is legally obligated to pay those damages; and
2)the accident that caused those damages arose out of the ownership or use of the described auto or a non-owned auto
Now I'm skipping thru all the different definitions of an 'insured' under these coverages, and posting only the one that applies
Category 4
Individuals who have permission or general consent to use the described auto are insureds for claims resulting from that use. The limit of their coverage is the min. amount required by the financial responsiblity law appliciable to the accident, regardless of the amount stated in the Declarations. With respect to these insureds, we provide only those coverages required byt he applicable financial responsiblity law.
The following words are defined in the policy as follows:
PERMISSION: means the prior authorization of the owner of an item of personal property for another to use it on a specified occasion and for a specified purpose. The specified occasion can be more than one day in duration. Permission exists only on that specified occasion and only while the item is being used for the specified purpose. Permission can be expressed or implied. An individual who is expressly authorized to use a vehicle by a person in possession of that vehicle will be treated as having permission to use it, if he or she reasonably believes that the permission extends from its owner.
GENERAL CONSENT: means the authorization of the owner of an auto for another to use it on one or more occasions without the necessity of obtaining permission for each use. General consent can be expressed or implied.
Now under F & G (coll/comp)
Insured means you
INSURED means the person defined as an insured by the specific coverage or dendorsement under which coverage is sought.
YOU means any person listed as a named insured in the Declaarations and, if that person is an individual her or her spouse.
PERSON means an individual, a corp, or an entity that has separate legal existence under the laws of the state where this policy was issued or a claim is made.
INDIVIDUAL means a human being
In MO, he's covered. Unless there is some wacky policy (private) that I've not seen..possible, but unlikely. They are all written pretty much the same. But of course we don't have a copy of the OP's policy to check the language.
IMO, the OP needs to file the claim with his carrier (did, and denied? really? get it in writing the file a complaint with your states Dept of Ins. AFTER requesting your adjusters superiors review this), file a claim with sisters insurance carrier, and with drivers parents insurance carrier. I find it VERY hard to believe that this claim would be denied...
Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 03:33 pm Post Subject:
In the case of the dealer, the insurer cited that they had abused the confines of the policy. The vehicle was not being used/operated under ther terms of the policy. Vehicle was being used outside of business purposes. Coll and liab was denied. The dealer is suing the vendor for damages. This is a MO claim.
Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 03:50 pm Post Subject:
In the case of the dealer...
That is a GK form, not a PAP. Definitions as well as coverage is different.Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 10:48 am Post Subject:
In the case of the dealer, the insurer cited that they had abused the confines of the policy.
Agreed, the policy wording is totally different. I'd fully expect that claim to be denied. I've only been involved in claims with a few of those policys, and the difference is night and day.Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 09:40 am Post Subject: Claim denial
There is one aspect to this claim that might be missed on a denial for collision coverage. Certain insurance insuring agreements exclude coverage and will deny collision coverage based on the fact that the driver who caused the accident was not licensed! Some companies have such exclusion within the insurance contract.
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