by jwu223 » Wed Oct 21, 2009 02:06 pm
Hi, I would like to seek second opinion regarding my total loss van. My van was 2004 silver Honda Odyssey EX with DVD system with 51K miles. It was totaled by Liberty Mutual two weeks ago. I was not at fault.
Liberty Mutual showed me the comparables they found. Only one is still on sale in the market, which is 98K miles. All the others were already historical data and the lowest miles on the comps was 68K. I faxed them the comps I found in the market and did my calculation including mileage adjustment (I used 10 cents per mile; they used 4.5 cents per mile.)
They did further research for 7 more business days and couldn't find any comparable sales in the market. They provided me an offer of $14600 based on NADA. But I have found a similar van on Carmax (2004 Honda Odyssey EX with 52K miles) priced at $15998. They told me 1) Carmax's price is high. Everybody haggles at buying cars. 2) Their vehicle replacement service will find me a similar one around $13000. But I have to settle for $14600 first and then I could talk to that service and get the van. I am uncomfortable with option 2 and unwilling to take the offer. I want to buy the van from Carmax since it is the most comparable. I am not a haggling person and the loss of my van shouldn't be determined by my haggling ability. The rental will be due this Friday. It's been almost a month after the accident.
Should I ask Liberty Mutual to hire an independent vehicle appraiser? How much will it cost? Should I seek legal action? Will it worth more than the $2000 we are short-changed? Any insights will be appreciated.
Liberty Mutual showed me the comparables they found. Only one is still on sale in the market, which is 98K miles. All the others were already historical data and the lowest miles on the comps was 68K. I faxed them the comps I found in the market and did my calculation including mileage adjustment (I used 10 cents per mile; they used 4.5 cents per mile.)
They did further research for 7 more business days and couldn't find any comparable sales in the market. They provided me an offer of $14600 based on NADA. But I have found a similar van on Carmax (2004 Honda Odyssey EX with 52K miles) priced at $15998. They told me 1) Carmax's price is high. Everybody haggles at buying cars. 2) Their vehicle replacement service will find me a similar one around $13000. But I have to settle for $14600 first and then I could talk to that service and get the van. I am uncomfortable with option 2 and unwilling to take the offer. I want to buy the van from Carmax since it is the most comparable. I am not a haggling person and the loss of my van shouldn't be determined by my haggling ability. The rental will be due this Friday. It's been almost a month after the accident.
Should I ask Liberty Mutual to hire an independent vehicle appraiser? How much will it cost? Should I seek legal action? Will it worth more than the $2000 we are short-changed? Any insights will be appreciated.
Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 02:48 am Post Subject:
Fred, seriously? This is the point you are missing. The insurer is not "shopping" for a vehicle. They are replacing the property value of his vehicle. What he does with the money is of no concern to the insurer, as long as they pay him for what is owed. An x amount of $ was destroyed so the same amount of $ is owed. He is getting back what he has lost. Obviously giving him more money would put him in a better position than he was before the accident. Fred I have been doing this for a while as have others here on this forum, even longer.
What eventually happens to a 3rd party claimant when they won't accept the settlement is that he/she has a choice of sueing the at-fault party for the difference or their insurance company will inform the claimant to go to his carrier to see if he can get a better amount. I don't know what the claimant in this case has done as far as research to locate a similar vehicle besides internet searches.
My advice would be for him/her to go and talk to some dealers to see if they can locate what the claimant needs. Dealers have resources to pull all sorts of availible vehicles that they can negoiate over price that cannot be found on the internet. Like I said before, since Carmax doesn't negoiate on price, another dealer may take
the settlement money amount or suprise, take less.
Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 03:10 pm Post Subject:
One Question..
Was there an answer to the direct question that I ask of you anywhere within your last response??
I was unable to find one.
Would you be so kind as to 'Highlight it'
Thanks in advance.
Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 10:43 pm Post Subject:
Yeah, I'll look into it. But let me eat dinner first. :)
Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 11:47 pm Post Subject:
About the actual Carmax vehicle, that is something that he wants to buy. Thats fine, theres nothing stopping him from getting it. But his investment was only worth x amount of dollars. It's his dilema that the value of his investment doesn't cover the new investment he is interested in. Correct me if I am wrong, but I am getting the impression that you believe that because the only van he could find that closely matches the one that was totalled, and is the one that he wants to buy, somehow the insurer owes him the additonal funds so that he can go buy it. He found that van, miles and all-thats his deal. He's settled on buying it. But then since the amount exceeds his investment, that would put him in a better position. Thats not the concern of the insurer. Conducting a comparable vehicle search doesn't have to produce a vehicle that actually exits. The vehicle isn't the subject of the claim, only it's value.
Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 12:10 pm Post Subject:
Well you know the old saying.....
If a Lie it told often enough and long enough it will eventually be accepted as a Truth.
Kind of Sad isn't it.
But.... Money Talks and..... ummm errr well, that's it Money Talks, and talks, and talks.
Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 01:29 pm Post Subject:
Well you know the old saying.....
If a Lie it told often enough and long enough it will eventually be accepted as a Truth.
Kind of Sad isn't it.
But.... Money Talks and..... ummm errr well, that's it Money Talks, and talks, and talks.
What's this suppose to mean? :? I hope you are not accusing me of being a liar. If you don't want to take my word for it, I encorage you to read your auto policy and speak to your agent. No offense again, but your idea of how you think insurance works and how it actually works in claim like this is just wrong. But thats okay, I would rather you get the facts and understand the terms, because like many that I and others who have sat down with to settle on an amount had a complete misunderstanding of how the process works.
Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 09:01 pm Post Subject:
I have been an agent and have owned my own agency for more the 20 years. FK, Trench is 100% correct.
The insurance company does not owe this guy a dime more than what his vehicle is worth. The replacement
Service on a policy is for the replacement value of the property not the property itself. It is also correct
that when conducting an evaluation, that an actual vehicle does not have to be located in order to settle
the claim. The information that is needed, is what a vehicle matching the vehicle would value in a particular
market. The insurance company's job is not to look for a vehicle for the insured to buy. FK you are like
many of the uniformed people my office sees on regular basis.
Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 11:16 pm Post Subject:
If the insurance company could provide some real comparable sales in the analysis, I would be persuaded. But they couldn't find one that is at all comparable to my totaled van, so I had to go out and find a few, mostly at Carmax, which they won't accept as comps. Unless they could produce one comp that is really comparable, they couldn't convince me otherwise.
By the way, how do insurance companies come up with 4.5 cents per mile adjustment?
Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 03:45 am Post Subject:
Define what you mean by real. As previously stated before, you are under the impression that the insurer is shopping for a vehicle similar to yours that you can buy. You need to forget the word "vehicle", and start thinking value. Your settlement is based on what you would expect to pay for your van in the market. What is the acv of not a similar vehicle, but your van?The fact that you cannot locate a similar van for the amount of your settlement is not the insurers problem. You can complain all you want, it's not going to change anything. As a 3rd party claimant, what other things have you considered to collect from the at-fault party insurer that may assist you with coming up with the extra cash to close the gap between your settlement and the new vehicle? They won't even bother trying to convince you that not their job.
FK you are like
many of the uniformed people my office sees on regular basis.
Although I appricate you backing me up, Fred is far from uninformed. Perhaps on this subject maybe. But he is quite knowledgable and I have learned many things from him. If you all you want is to insult others about what they know, do it some place else. :roll:
Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 01:59 pm Post Subject:
By the way, how do insurance companies come up with 4.5 cents per mile adjustment?
By determining the operating costs (excluding maintenance costs) of a sepecific or similar vehicle in normal driving conditions.
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