is car a real total

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 4:28 am   Post subject: is car a real total  

I have been hit in the rear and my car is toast but the insurnce guy says that it can be fixed. It is a 2007 Camry with only 38000 miles, I take very good care of it. I thought that the shop I would take it to would help me out and try to tell the guy that is totalled. But the shop said no and that whatever the insurance company says goes. What if don't want my car? I feeling that I have no say in this and that they are making me get it fixed. If they feel that they can really do it, I might give them the chance. But I don't understand what the report really says. The shop seemed to hurry through it but I will try and explain. Sorry but I am not very knowledgable about cars. What it boils down to is a body section I guess? All the torn up pieces will be gone and they have another car like mine parts tht is already together? Its a different color than mine and I don't understand how they can paint it just right. Nobody really taken the time to explain this to me so I can understand. I asked why cant they just buy new pieces and put them on instead of the car that is a differnt color? They said it was cheaper which I can understand but I am nervous. Can someone help me?


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 7:27 am   Post subject:   

First of all, you should know what it takes to term a car as 'totaled'. If the repair charges are around 80% of the market value, then only you may consider it as totaled.



So, if your insurance carrier has the reason to believe that it could be repaired at a lesser cost then I don't see a problem with that. In addition, you've mentioned that the body shop has also supported your carrier's view regarding the damage. Did your insurer direct you to this body shop? Once the repair is done you may always get it checked with another body shop.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 12:41 pm   Post subject:   

I understand your concern. But no really you don't have a choice about whether or not your vehicle is totalled. You do however, have other choices. You do not HAVE to repair your vehicle. You can take the cost of repair, and not repair your vehicle, junk it, sell it as is (maybe the shop would buy it)...and go down the road. Insurance companys would not (and should not) total a vehicle just because an owner wants it done.



Now, as to painting the replacement parts. If they bought brand new oem parts, these have to be painted as well. They don't come in color (well some mouldings do but that's about it).



If you'd like to post the est for the cost of repair I'll go thru it and explain to you what they are doing.



IMO, there is absolutely NO excuse for the adjuster and/or shop not to take the time to set down and go thru that estimate line by line with you so you will understand what is happening.



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PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 4:18 pm   Post subject:   

To quote Geena Davis's character in response to Jeff Goldblum's character in the movie The Fly when he said;



"Don't be afraid"



Be afraid, be very afraid. I want to respond that the insurance company ultimately decides whether or not the vehicle is economically feasable to repair or cost effective. However, it is your vehicle and if don't want it to be repaired as Lori pointed out, you have every right to choose not to. But what frightens me the most about your story, is how the shop/insurance company is planning on repairing your car. Based on your description and use of the phrase "body section", leads me to believe that the damage is going to be repaired by the use of what is known as a full or partial body section. What that basically means is that a partial replacement assembly (rear bumper, quarter panel and trunk) or a full replacement assembly (rear bumper, both quarter panels, floor trunk and in some cases the roof) is an undamaged portion of a "junk" car being installed on the undamaged portion of your car. The end result is 2 cars in one. Understand?



When the shop said "cheap", they couldn't have explained it any better. Not only is this a cheap solution to keep your vehicle from totalling, it's also considered one of the most if not the most dangerous repairs you can recieve in the collision repair industry. Many insurance companies over the last few years have done away with accepting this as an acceptable and correct repair method because of the risks involved. Like most collision related repairs, a majority are endorsed and regulated by not only the manufacturer of the vehicle (in your case Toyota) but collision repair professionals and other professionals within the industry. If what appears to be taking place with your Camry, Toyota and industry professonal do not endorse or accept this practice as a proper or acceptable repair. There really is no standard or safe guidelines to this type of repair. When 75% of collision repair work is done incorrectly, 35% of those repairs are structually related. Your vehicle fits in this 35% catagory.[/i]

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 4:23 pm   Post subject:   

You need to find out whether the intent to save your car is by using a rear section clip. This procedure has been dropped by most insurers and Toyota does not recommend or endorse clipping of their vehicles.



Quote:
Body Sectioning with salvage parts is not an approved repair method. This position is stated clearly in CRIB #122 Full Body Sectioning, released February 2003.




The entire Toyota position statement on use of sectioned parts can be found at this link. It encourages you to copy it and forward it to your bodyshop.



http://www.stopsteering.com/OEM%20Position%20Statements/OEM%20Position %20Statements.htm


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 8:37 pm   Post subject:   

i was shown the parts and yes it is the whole back of a red Camry. It looks like it's in preety fair shape. so you guys don't think it's an ok repair? why? i don't believe that they would fix something that wasn't safe. Is there somewhere I could look at how they do it? THE insurance said it would have a warranty and I would not be able to notice the difference. If this is true and it would be a safe repair, i will consider it. Yes I do own the car and have no loan. But what about when I if i want to sell iot in the later on? Also what about a rental car? They said I could rent one and then be reimbursed. How long should I expect it to be at the shop? Sorry iof I have a lot of questions. never been in an accident before. What should i do. i am more nervous after reading what you think.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 10:55 pm   Post subject:   

The fact that Toyota themselves state that they do not approve this repair procedure with used parts, means that the shop (not the insurer) is first in line for all future liability on this repair. In all likelihood this is a profitable repair for the shop and they will try to convince you that it is safe. Forget about any resale or trade in value in the next couple of years should you decide to trade.



It's beyond me why you would want to own a Frankencar.



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 3:08 pm   Post subject:   

Toyota does not repair cars, they make them. So what they think doesn't really hold a candle to what a professional repairer can do. Often the result is a car that is 100 times stronger after the repair because the repairs are reinforced. When your vehicle is repaired to preloss condition, what it looked like before the accident, it won't hurt the resale value at all.

The only reasons why car companies do not like used parts, is that they don't make any money on them.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 4:19 pm   Post subject:   

Quote:
Toyota does not repair cars, they make them. So what they think doesn't really hold a candle to what a professional repairer can do. Often the result is a car that is 100 times stronger after the repair because the repairs are reinforced. When your vehicle is repaired to preloss condition, what it looked like before the accident, it won't hurt the resale value at all.

The only reasons why car companies do not like used parts, is that they don't make any money on them.





Your statement is ridiculous. Toyota does repair vehicles and who better to advise a professional repairer, then the entity who designed and built the car? Professional repairers follow strict manufacturer guidelines. It's insurance companies and non-professional repairers that disregard those guidelines and safety all in order to save a buck. Vehicles repaired in this fashion are not structurally more secure, please provide information for your theory.There is no such thing as preloss condition. It is an insurance term used to describe a repaired vehicle. When a vehicle as been repaired, it no longer is a reflection of it's former self. By this theory, you are saying that you would pay the same amount of money for a vehicle that has been involved in accident and repaired vs one that has not. That doesn't make any sense. The reason the manufacturers do not endorse the use of parts and procedures like this, has nothing to do with money, it's about saftey and the loyalty to their customers.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 7:07 pm   Post subject:   

Quote:
Your statement is ridiculous




Add proposterous, unbelievable, predictable, and self serving.



This thread wreaks of a plant and possible troll.



The guest poster who suggested Toyota should defer to repair experts with all of Toyota's engineers at their disposal, probably condones reinforcement of frame rails which were designed to predictably collapse and aborb energy and work in timing sequence with sophisticated electronic monitoring sytems all designed for passenger safety.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 7:27 pm   Post subject:   

Quote:
This thread wreaks of a plant and possible troll.




There is one in every forum. Often and in this case as well, here is someone that has no idea what he/she is talking about. By just the way your statement is constructed, it's like reading right out of an insurance company employee handbook. What to say and how to say it.



"100 times stronger" Laughing What page is that on?



Because I have seen it enough times, and have even been hired by insurance companies to see how over or underwritten estimates by their employess are, I am almost willing to bet that it is over written. I would even go so far say that it probably doesn't even need a full section. You could probably fix it cheaper with all OEM (new) parts.



To this owner, I advise you to reconsider this repair if you haven't commited. If you take care of it like you mentioned, don't let someone take advantage of you. The car needs to be either totalled or be reinspected by a professional shop or adjuster who will work for you and not the insurer. This shop is not working for you, if they are not offering you alternative options.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 10:21 am   Post subject:   

Boys...you're feeding an (ignorant) troll LaughingWink





Just a point that I'd like to make (and asked for earlier)..I'd have to see the estimate. I wouldn't make the jump that they are clipping this car....I know what she said, but it also rang of a ''thing-a-ma-gig"



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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 2:02 pm   Post subject:   

Ridiculous, self serving? Please. Where did you guys get that from the back of a cereal box? How many of you have ever been in a shop?

When and where has Toyota ever had a hand in a repair? Don't know what I am talking about Trench? I have been in the insurance business

In auto claims for awhile. Most of the shops we work with can repair just about anything and you couldn't tell. There is such a thing as pre loss

condition. If you fix something, its back to what it was. If done correctly, it would not loose any value. Explain that. Insurance companies are tired

of getting ripped off. Customers save a lot of money by going to our shops because they keep the costs low and they see the benefit by paying lower

premiums. Its the shops that charge to much and for unneeded things that drive up the cost. And we would warranty the repairs for as long as he owns that

car or we would find another shop to do the work. He's covered either way. Your facts straight.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 4:21 pm   Post subject:   

Self serving was dead on it seems. The only one that benefits from clipping a car is the insurance company as a cost savings measure only. A clipped car is worthless as a trade in.



I'd be willing to bet you got a wall full of Icar certificates that give you just enough training and understanding to be dangerous to policyholders.



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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 4:47 pm   Post subject:   

Quote:
I have been in the insurance business

In auto claims for awhile




Define "awhile". Six months, a couple of years? You sound an awful like the Geico employee that posted here recently. Your beliefs are kool aid drinking talking points that are usually brainwashed into new adjusters.

I won't even begin to question you on your qualifications, as I am sure you will be able to look up the answers in your little book. You fit the profile of these young know-it-all appraisers that come into shops. You question repair methods, yet you have never worked in a shop, let alone performed any repairs yourself. When you're asked or questioned about repair options and operations, you always run like cock roaches running across a white rug. Do us all a favor and go away.
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