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 Posted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 1:20 am Post subject: Question I have. I had a sister that passed away sometime a |
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| I had a sister that passed away some time ago. She made a benificiary change but was unable to mail it back to the insurance company. She passed away before she could put it in the mail. The form is signed and dated and the insurance company knew she was going to make a change. Do i have any recourse? |
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BULLITBOB
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| Posted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 11:40 am Post subject: |
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First off sorry about your sis..secondly 'recourse' about what? Did she change it to you? From whom? if she passed some time ago, have you not brought this beneficary change to the insurance companys attention? If so what is their stance? Why would she change her beneficiary, (literally) on her death bed?
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Lori
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| Posted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 4:01 pm Post subject: Question |
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| She changed it to me. And it was not on her death bed. She had a heartattack which was unexpected. She passed away in June. So again, dio I have any recourse with the insurance company being that she was not able to mail the change form to the insurance company. |
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BULLITBOB
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| Posted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 4:32 pm Post subject: |
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Was she on her way to the mailbox when she had this heart attack?
I don't mean to be callous, but the problem is that if she didn't mail the form, unless the insurance company can read minds, they have no way of knowing if she was going to actually go through with the beneficiary change.
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fakfwoairuimvv
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| Posted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 9:14 pm Post subject: Are you serious with this reply |
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What difference does it make where she had it. Obviously you do not know the answer. She signed the form before she died so she must have intended to make the change. Thanks for no help
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robert fuller
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| Posted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 9:18 pm Post subject: |
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A few questions OP - is the form signed dated and ready to go? If so, whether she actually got to the mail box or not may not be the biggest issue, what I expect you will need to establish is a demonstrable intent.
You mentioned this was some time ago - how long? Was this form only recently discovered?
Whats happened with the life insurance so far? has someone been paid out?
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heidrek
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| Posted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 11:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | What difference does it make where she had it. Obviously you do not know the answer. She signed the form before she died so she must have intended to make the change. Thanks for no help |
Intent doesn't really matter. There are lots of things in life that we intend to do. Insurance is a contract. Intending to change a contract does not make it changed. It must be received by the insurance company.
It has to be this way. Plenty of people sign beneficiary change forms and then change their minds and don't send them to the company.
If we give you an incorrect answer that you like, would that make you happy?
Maybe, just maybe, you might have something if mailing the form was an impossibility. Did she die the same day as signing the form?
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farvarv gs
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| Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 12:06 pm Post subject: |
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IMO, there is going to be a big difference in the time that elapsed from the time she signed and dated the form and the time of her death...I've asked you the same questions..she's been gone nearly six months..who was the prior beneficary, and what has happened thus far to the policy? How did you know she changed it? Where you there when she signed it? Did anyone else know about it?
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Lori
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| Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 5:02 pm Post subject: |
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This is a dubious incident. When a person signs and dates a beneficiary change form, the proof of their intent is if they put it in an envelope with postage and put it in the mail. That they did not do so is probably proof that they never intended to make the change.
If the named beneficary has predeceased the insured, perhaps -- and again that's a longshot -- there could a showing of intent to change it, but without the sealed, postage-paid, AND postmarked envelope, even Judge Judy would not be likely to find evidence of the decedent's intent.
If a death claim has been paid, the only recourse at this late stage would be against the beneficiary who actually received the death benefit proceeds. Suing the insurer is a lost cause (i.e., summary judgment for the defendant) unless you could prove that they knew about the beneficiary change and intentionally ignored it. You've already state otherwise.
Sorry, but there is no case against the insurer here.
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MaxHerr
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| Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 10:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | When a person signs and dates a beneficiary change form, the proof of their intent is if they put it in an envelope with postage and put it in the mail |
THANK YOU!
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Lori
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| Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 1:49 am Post subject: BENIFICIARY |
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I DON'T want to sue. I just want them to pay off the policy. If she notified the company and they did respond to the request, so they knew of her intent, that is perectly clear. I have their response in writing to her request. The company has not contacted the previous beneficiary. I filed the claim as the sole surving relative and to this date have not received a response. How can you mail it if you died before you can make it to the post office? And no, you have not helped me so far
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ROBERT FULLER
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| Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 7:22 am Post subject: |
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Robert . . .
Some of what you are saying doesn't make sense. Normally, if an insured signs, dates, and mails a Change of Beneficiary request to the insurer, it is effective the day it is signed, even if the insurer receives it a week later, after the insured has died. They only have to verify that the signature is that of the policyowner.
Would you care to share what the response from the insurance company stated? That would be a big help to me. Because there are a handful of companies, like Allstate, that will refuse a beneficiary change if it's not executed on their specific form. Until they receive their form, no change is recognized.
Insurance companies have no reason to initiate contact with any beneficiary. The beneficiary is not a party to the contract before the insured dies, and until the insured dies, the insurer really could care less who or what it is.
They do not contact other ("previous") beneficiaries (presumably to get their approval? I don't really know what you mean by that), unless the primary beneficiary is "IRREVOCABLE" (a discussion I really didn't want to bring up), in which case the IRREVOCABLE beneficiary must consent to the change, and if they don't consent, there can be no change. Beneficiaries are usually "revocable" and can be changed as often as the owner wishes.
" I filed the claim as the sole surving relative and to this date have not received a response."
Did you file the company's official death claim form, or did you just send them a letter -- which is not a valid claim? They are waiting for their claim form. Did you supply a certified copy of the death certificate? If not, they are waiting for that, too, before they can pay the claim. If you filed the company's official claim form with a death certificate, you may not have heard anything if they sent the check to the beneficiary of record, which is their contractual obligation, and legally they have no responsibility to correspond with you. Finally, how long ago did you correspond with them?
What I'm trying to point out, Robert, is that there is at least one big piece of the puzzle you are withholding that could reveal the true answer to all of this. Filing a death claim as "sole surviving relative" is meaningless except that it notices the insurer that a death has occurred. Insurance laws dictate to the insurance company what it must and must not do.
Finally, you end your post with: "How can you mail it if you died before you can make it to the post office? And no, you have not helped me so far" By "it" I think you mean a change of beneficiary request. But your question is the answer to your question. As much as a person would like to change their beneficiary, if they never take/have the opportunity to do so, it doesn't get changed, except fraudulently by someone else.
If, at least, the insured, as I said above, put the request in an envelope, addressed, and with postage, that shows about 50% of the necessary intent. But it's not absolute proof, because the possibility also exists that they did not mail it because they had a change of heart, and just never trashed the request. Can you see the dilemma in all of this? Have you ever been to the home of a dead person and found things that could not be explained? Items packaged as if ready to be mailed, but not addressed? Who do you think it was supposed to go to?
The insurance company has no responsibility to act as judge and jury, and will not do so. If it knows there is a dispute over beneficiaries, then it will withhold the death proceeds until adjudicated by a court. Then it pays with interest from the date of death (and the beneficiary will pay income tax on the interest, but not the death proceeds).
This is all the stuff of fiction novels that sometimes become blockbuster movies.
So, Robert, please provide the missing information we need to help you. If you're entitled to pursue your claim, I'll be happy to give you as much guidance as I possibly can.
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MaxHerr
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