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 Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 9:11 pm Post subject: FARMER'S INSURANCE HAS (WE BELIEVE) UNFAIRLY LABELED OUR CAR |
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1994 CAMARO Z28 CONVERTIBLE W/51K MILES IN MINT CONDITION.
FARMER'S IS INSISTING THEIR ESTIMATE OF DAMAGES INCLUDE ALL NEW PARTS (SINCE WE ADDED THIS TO OUR POLICY - "OEM PARTS CLAUSE"). WE HAVE FOUND FEW "NEW OEM PARTS ARE AVAILABLE FOR OUR CAR".
WE ARE DISPUTING THEIR "LOW VALUATION" OF OUR CAR BASED ON "THEIR" APPRAISER (BIG BLOCK) WHO DID NOT EVEN SEE OUR CAR.
OUR APPRAISER "INTERSTATE APPRAISERS" HAS APPRAISED OUR CAR AT TWICE THEIR APPRAISED VALUE, AND OUR COST OF DAMAGES IS HALF WHAT THEY CLAIM? |
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in2topfuel
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| Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 9:25 pm Post subject: |
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I'm really confused. First, what is the problem and what is the question.
It seems like you think Farmers's appraisal is low (they did not use new OEM parts) but then you state that your appraiser's repair cost is 1/2 Farmers.
How did Farmers arrive at the value of your vehicle? Have you reviewed their information to make sure it's correct (YMM, mileage, options, etc.)? Since this is an older vehicle with low miles, ask Farmers if they will have Audatex or CCC perform a manual or expanded search for comparable vehicles. Why do you think their value is low? How did you arrive at your value? How did Interstate arrive at their value? Has Farmers reviewed the information from Interstate? |
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tcope
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| Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 9:39 pm Post subject: Z28 |
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PROBLEM IS WE DON'T WANT OUR CAR IN "SALVAGE TITLE" AND BELIEVE IT WAS WRONGLY CLASSIFIED AS SUCH. OUR APPRAISAL IS TWICE OUR INSURANCE COMPANIES, WHILE OUR ESTIMATE OF REPAIR IS HALF!
OUR BODY SHOP MADE THE ESTIMATE OF REPAIRS (NOT THE APPRAISER). FARMER'S IS USING OUR "OEM REPLACEMENT PARTS" ADDITION TO OUR POLICY AGAINST US. MOST MAJOR PARTS CANNOT BE OBTAINED "NEW OEM", YET THEY ARE USING THIS COUPLED WITH A LOW APPRAISED VALUE TO "SALVAGE TITLE" OUR CAR. BOTH FARMER'S AND OUR APPRAISER USED "COMPARABLES" BUT THE DIFFERENCE IS HUGE. OUR MAIN CONCERN IS "SALVAGE TITLE" AND THEIR (FARMER'S) LOW APPRAISAL OF OUR CAR COUPLED WITH HIGH COST OF REPAIRS HAS PUT OUR CAR IN "SALVAGE RETENTION". CAN THIS BE REVERSED??? |
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in2topfuel
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| Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 10:09 pm Post subject: |
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Please don't type in all caps, it's YELLING!
| Quote: | | FARMER'S IS USING OUR "OEM REPLACEMENT PARTS" ADDITION TO OUR POLICY AGAINST US. MOST MAJOR PARTS CANNOT BE OBTAINED "NEW OEM", YET THEY ARE USING THIS COUPLED WITH A LOW APPRAISED VALUE TO "SALVAGE TITLE" OUR CAR. |
They are not using it "against" you... they have an obligation to offer you what you asked for... you asked for new OEM parts to be used on any repairs. If these OEM parts are not available, how are they arriving at their cost? I'd think the price of something that does not exist would not be known. Have you asked Farmers about using prices of parts that don't exist? What did they tell you? The other part is possibly that your insurance contract requires them to use the known prices of new OEM even if they are not available. If this is the case, a contract is a contract. If they don't honor it, they can be sue for breach of contract.
You did not address my other questions about the appraised value on the vehicle. |
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tcope
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| Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 10:42 pm Post subject: 94z28 camaro |
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| They arrived at their appraised value through a CCC report. We arrived at ours through an independent appraiser "Interstate Appraisers". How can their estimate of damages be based on parts that don't exist? They are using the high estimate of damages and their low appraised value to "salvage title" oujr car. They wouldn't be using "oem (new)" parts if they "total" our car. |
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in2topfuel
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| Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 10:50 pm Post subject: |
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At this time I don't see an issue with their repair cost, it really comes down to what your policy states. It appears they are using prices of new OEM if they were available and the estimate you have is using other parts. Does your contract allow for the use of non-new OEM? If not, then it would appear that Farmers wrote up the damages correctly.
Again, have you reviewed the CCC report to make sure it's using correct information on your vehicle? Again, ask Farmers to have CCC perform a manual search for comparable vehicles. On this type of vehicle, this is a _must_. Trust me, CCC can/will do this... they just need Farmers to ask them. Have you looked over the vehicles used in the CCC report? If you've not done any of this, how can you be sure that their information is incorrect?
Where did Interstate get their value from? |
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tcope
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| Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 10:58 pm Post subject: 94z28 |
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| Our policy allows use of non oem parts if oem parts are not available, but their estimate of damages is based on all new parts. We have not asked Farmer's for a CCC manual search as of yet. Interstate Appraisers appraised our car using market comparables and the condition of our car. It seems our car now is classified as "salvage retention" already. Can this be reversed if their data is found incorrect? Or are we fighting a hopeless situation? Our main goal is to avoid "salvage title". The car is now in (non-op) status, and we have not tried to register it yet. We live in California. |
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in2topfuel
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| Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 11:44 pm Post subject: |
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| It may depend on the rationale that either, they were unable to locate non-OEM parts such as used/salvage or aftermarket parts. Sometimes, these parts maybe availible one day, and gone the next. It may depend on the severity of the damage as well. If I go out and inspect a vehicle where I am 100% positive that non-OEM parts will not save (keep from totalling) a vehicle, I will write with all new parts. Secondly, depending on the parts themselves, the labor to use non-OEM parts in cases of used, are many times to expensive and not cost effective. For example, many carriers are not writing used quarter panels because the labor many shops charge to install them cost more than installing a new one. You can ask for the vendors they contacted for locating non-OEM parts and see if can you find sources on your own to change the outcome, which can happen. On the other hand, if the non-OEM ctiteria is aftermarket parts, some carriers will not allow the use of aftermarket sheetmetal, as some of these parts have been deemed unsafe, non-fitting, low corrosion protection, etc. I don't think it's hopeless. If you can find the find the parts locally and shop will install them for a negoitated amount, then it's possible to reverse their estimate. My advise to you would be to find a shop that will help you in your search as well perform an inspection. That way you will know what is possible and what is not. |
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Trench
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| Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 11:53 pm Post subject: |
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ok, hold on a sec... | Quote: | | It seems our car now is classified as "salvage retention" already. |
Do you mean 'prior' to this loss? Also no carrier can 'make' your car 'salvage retention'..what they are doing is totaling your car, and 'if' you keep it, it may have this designation.
we need some questions answered to help you..
How long have you had this vehicle?
Did you see the title before you bought it?
Do you have the title?
What does the 'title' say on it?
ANYWHERE on that TITLE does it say, 'salvage' 'prior salvage' anything like that at all?
T has told you you need that CCC evaluation in your hand...and you need to look it over for it's accuracy. Make sure everything listed about your vehicle is correct.
Check the CA rules about salvage retention. Some states do not require a title be branded if the salvage is retained after a vehicle reaches a certain age.
Are these ACTUAL miles?
What do you (or your appraiser) think your vehicle is worth, and what does your carrier say?
Does your policy even have an 'appraisal' clause in it?
Was this car a show car?
If so can you prove that?
This whole 'oem' endorsement thing is most likely what got your vehicle totaled...but you bought it..they may not have an out..I'm betting that endorsement says 'if you pay for this we will pay for ONLY oem parts' They cannot go back on that..unless there is a claus that says you can waive it, (I've never seen one)...
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Last edited by Lori on Mon Feb 15, 2010 11:58 pm |
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Lori
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| Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 11:54 pm Post subject: 94z28 |
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| Our body shop has estimated damages at 50% of our appraised value of car. Farmer's however has already notified ca dmv of "salvage retention" status. Can this status be reversed by showing value of our car is greater than they see it and damages are lower? Our only goal is to reverse "salvage title". We fear that now that it has been reported to ca dmv, it will remain a "salvage title" (branded) car no matter what. Oh, sorry for the CAPS; didn't mean to yell. |
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in2topfuel
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| Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 11:56 pm Post subject: |
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Trench he bought the oem part only endorsement, I don't know that they CAN write alternative parts with this endorsement...
That's another thing OP, can you post that endors. for us to see?
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"Never, never be afraid to do what's right, especially if the well being of a person or animal is at stake. Society's punishments are small compared to the wounds we inflict on our soul when we look the other way." Martin Luther King Jr. |
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Lori
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| Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 12:05 am Post subject: 94z28 |
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| Our car was a special factory order and I have been the sole driver since 12/93. It had a totally clean title prior to this accident and we wish to keep it so. I have the title and have had it since day one, including pictures of when it was delivered to dealer. It was the first z28 convertible shipped to California (94 model). It was immaculate before accident. We only want to keep the clean title. I have all maintenance records and improvements to car done since new including dates and work performed (by myself). I used to be a line mechanic for Chevrolet. Is this "salvage retention" reversible if proven value of car exceeds estimate of damages by enough? We understand they "total" a car at 65%. Farmer's wants to go into arbitration and we feel we have been "low-balled". If we go through arbitration to determine an agreed to value of car, and we get Farmer's to accept our body shop's estimate of damages, can this "salvage retention" title be reversed. Thanks so much for your time. |
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in2topfuel
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| Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 12:25 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Farmer's however has already notified ca dmv of "salvage retention" status |
I don't know how they could've done that, if they haven't issued payment to you based on this... | Quote: | | Can this status be reversed by showing value of our car is greater than they see it and damages are lower? |
I still don't see how they could brand this without payment...I'd call the CA DMV for this answer... | Quote: | | Our only goal is to reverse "salvage title". We fear that now that it has been reported to ca dmv, it will remain a "salvage title" (branded) car no matter what. |
I understand your concern...again, I'd question how this could be branded without payment being made, based on you retaining the salvage... | Quote: | | Oh, sorry for the CAPS; didn't mean to yell. |
It's ok, some people don't realize it..it is harder to read...and a pet peeve of my buddy Tcope 
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"Never, never be afraid to do what's right, especially if the well being of a person or animal is at stake. Society's punishments are small compared to the wounds we inflict on our soul when we look the other way." Martin Luther King Jr. |
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Lori
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| Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 12:44 am Post subject: 94z28 |
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| We were on vacation when this accident happened and were told by Farmer's our only options were to give them the title and be given their offer for the cash value, or give them the title and "buy back" the car as a "salvage title" car. We didn't know we had any other options and told them over the phone we wanted to keep the car. They issued a check which we have but have not signed. We since realized their offer was unfair to us and refused to accept it. We have signed no papers agreeing to their initital offer and have not cashed their check! When my wife checked with ca dmv, they said the vin showed "salvage retention" status. This is our only issue and are disputing this evaluation of our car and the "salvage retention" status. We don't want a "salvage title" vehicle. What can we do now? We have had legal counsel, but gave it up for now because no progress was made. Lawyer couldn't understand why we were fighting their "salvage title" status of car, and only wanted a clean title and not more money. We hired attorney to slow process down, since Farmer's made us feel we had to sign their offer "now" and be done with it. Any help on what next step for us should be would be much appreciated. This has been an issue now for several months. Should we go into arbitration, sue Farmer's, file a complaint with ca department of insurance or what? Would arbitration reverse the "salvage retention" status, or is car truly in "salvage title" now, since no paperwork was signed by us? My wife went to dmv and they said car was showing "salvage retention" status. We have signed nothing w/Farmer's agreeing to this. Thanks! |
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in2topfuel
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| Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 1:15 am Post subject: |
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| This doesn't make any sense. You got a check from Farmers without signing any papers? On salvage retention you agree to the offer and sign off on it, someone had to agree to the amount of the check before it was issued. They wouldn't have just handed over a check without signature. |
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Trench
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