by in2topfuel » Mon Feb 15, 2010 09:11 pm
1994 CAMARO Z28 CONVERTIBLE W/51K MILES IN MINT CONDITION.
FARMER'S IS INSISTING THEIR ESTIMATE OF DAMAGES INCLUDE ALL NEW PARTS (SINCE WE ADDED THIS TO OUR POLICY - "OEM PARTS CLAUSE"). WE HAVE FOUND FEW "NEW OEM PARTS ARE AVAILABLE FOR OUR CAR".
WE ARE DISPUTING THEIR "LOW VALUATION" OF OUR CAR BASED ON "THEIR" APPRAISER (BIG BLOCK) WHO DID NOT EVEN SEE OUR CAR.
OUR APPRAISER "INTERSTATE APPRAISERS" HAS APPRAISED OUR CAR AT TWICE THEIR APPRAISED VALUE, AND OUR COST OF DAMAGES IS HALF WHAT THEY CLAIM?
FARMER'S IS INSISTING THEIR ESTIMATE OF DAMAGES INCLUDE ALL NEW PARTS (SINCE WE ADDED THIS TO OUR POLICY - "OEM PARTS CLAUSE"). WE HAVE FOUND FEW "NEW OEM PARTS ARE AVAILABLE FOR OUR CAR".
WE ARE DISPUTING THEIR "LOW VALUATION" OF OUR CAR BASED ON "THEIR" APPRAISER (BIG BLOCK) WHO DID NOT EVEN SEE OUR CAR.
OUR APPRAISER "INTERSTATE APPRAISERS" HAS APPRAISED OUR CAR AT TWICE THEIR APPRAISED VALUE, AND OUR COST OF DAMAGES IS HALF WHAT THEY CLAIM?
Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 04:47 am Post Subject:
Yes, the amount is approx. half usijng a mix of oem new and used parts. We have been dealing with their "Total Loss Specialist" since September. They now want arbitration since our appraisal (Interstate) is so much higher tnan theirs (Big Block - who did not even physically see our car). Their insistence on estimating damages using all new oem parts puts our car in "salvage" status. As far as "quick to total" goes, our car was damaged 9/11/09 and we were informed of it's "total loss" status Monday, 9/14. We were then informed we needed to make a decision regarding whether to keep the car (w/salvage title) or give it up and accept their low offer of settlement. Why were they so quick and pressuring us to accept their offer we don't know, except we believe they may be trying to "low-ball" us and not compensate us fairly. Should we pursue this with CA state DOI or try to deal w/arbitration through our insurance carrier? Should we file a complaint or let our agent try to work it out w/Farmer's?
Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 08:13 am Post Subject:
The new parts vs. used parts and the value of the vehicle is going to get worked out. Your problem that no one seems to be addressing is the salvage title. It would seem that when you told them over the phone that you accepted their offer, they sent the paperwork (how ever they do it) to the state. You are going to have to check with the state, explain what has happened and see if the salvage can be taken off if you end up being correct in the value of your vehicle. At this time, it would seem only the state is going to be able to tell you this. Mind you, the state you live in is a different bird.
Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 01:15 pm Post Subject:
Why were they so quick and pressuring us to accept their offer we don't know, except we believe they may be trying to "low-ball" us and not compensate us fairly
It was only 3 days since the date of loss, I have made offers in less time. Plus, if your vehicle was infact a total loss, you would appriciate the quick response in settleing your claim if you agreed with their decision. If you agreed that your vehicle should be totalled, do you agree that the settlement was fair if you were not interested in keeping the car. I don't think low balling is what is happening with this.
Should we pursue this with CA state DOI or try to deal
You may have to if you can't work it out with Farmers. I would start by calling the adjusters supervisor and tell them you have changed your mind and now want the vehicle fixed. You haven't signed anything or cashed the check. You only gave them a verbal agreement which means very little, IMO anyway.
deal w/arbitration through our insurance carrier?
Start small with the phone calls first. The estimate is just an estimate. Insurance companies do not repair cars. You have a second opinion where the car can be repaired under the threshold, which they should look into, it complicates thing a little since you verbally areed on a settlement. However, I see no reason for them not to consider it.
Should we file a complaint or let our agent try to work it out w/Farmer's?
You agent is not going to be able to help much, however does he know abot what is going on?
Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 01:35 pm Post Subject:
Couple of troubling things here...
This doesn't make any sense. You got a check from Farmers without signing any papers? On salvage retention you agree to the offer and sign off on it
Trench, since you are a 'third' party (I don't know how else to say it :? ) maybe this is why you have to handle claims that way...maybe it's a carrier to carrier thing..but I'll tell you right now, DAILY I settle owner retaining salvage claims and have NEVER not once had to have the owner sign a thing! I run the VIN and the registration, if there is no lein holder, I issue payment to the owner, minus the salvage value. Which by the way is how the state was notified. In our state (MO) if a vehicle is over 6 or 7 years old insurance carriers do not HAVE to notify the DMV any longer, they can, if they (IMO) want to be jerks, but they no longer are required to. But if a vehicle totals owner retained, and newer than that, then when that draft is issued the MO DMV 'must' be notified, and the title is then branded....all states have differing laws/regulations regarding this...up until a few years ago in MO all owner retained vehicles also had to be branded....again, I have NEVER not one single time, had to have ANY owner sign ANYTHING on an owner retains salvage claim...They wouldn't have just handed over a check without signature.
You're wrong about this Trench...as I've said...I don't know if this is a company to company thing..if it's when an independent is involved..but I work for one of the 'big four' and never, ever, in the ten years I've worked for them have I done this...I'm still betting that the endorsement REQUIRED OEM parts, if available...FIRST....now if you can prove the OEM parts that are on the sheet are not available..then maybe you can get somewhere...you'll also need to further find out, if this carrier is allowed to use 'non' capa parts, and if the parts on the estimate the shop wrote are a/m are they capa certified or not?
It looks to me like you are fighting two different battles..on one hand, you already accepted their offer, (verbal is just as binding), and they issued payment based on that verbal agreement, then did (apparently) what your state requires and notified the DMV..Let me ask you something..assuming the state didn't brand this title, would you be upset or even bringing up the ACV?
You say you were on vacation...so did you tow this vehicle back? This happened like five months ago...when did you FIRST bring to Farmers attention that you have a problem? When you've talked to Farmers what have they said EXACTLY about this situation?
The only 'possible' hope you have of this title changing (IMO) is that Farmers is going to have to 'un' total it..pure and simple....
Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 01:42 pm Post Subject:
I found something...maybe...CA DOI has a mediation board...here are the guidelines...does your claim qualify monetarily? I've put in bold the reasons it would qualify but as you can see you MUST also reach the dollar amount.
Who Is Eligible for this Program?
Any personal automobile policyholder who has purchased physical damage coverage (comprehensive and collision) from their insurance company and has a claim dispute can make a mediation request subject to statutory guidelines covering eligibility. Mediation does not apply to commercial automobile coverage, or to third party liability claims (claims made against another person's insurance company). Disputes qualifying for mediation are those that involve overall claim amounts exceeding $7500 and where the amount in dispute exceeds $2000.
Issues Eligible for Mediation:
Extent or Amounts of Damage
Methods of Repair
Cause of Damage
Prior Damage vs. Recent Damage
Total Loss vs. Repairing
Value of Total Loss
Issues Not Eligible for Mediation:
Coverage issues - the absence of coverage, and other underwriting issues involving failure to insure, cancellation, nonrenewal and rating issues.
Legal interpretations of policy provisions and terms.
The statute of limitations and contractual limitations on filing periods.
Agent or broker actions, unless there are allegations that the insurer was responsible for the conduct.
The inclusion of a lender on a claim payment draft.
Allegations of bad faith, and other demands for extra contractual payments.
http://www.insurance.ca.gov/0100-consumers/0060-information-guides/0010-automobile/AutoMediation.cfm
Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 02:04 pm Post Subject:
Per the CA DMV---you 'can' get your title change to a 'revived' salvage title...
A Revived Salvage is a salvage vehicle which has been repaired and reregistered with the DMV.
Here is the link on 'how' you go about doing this...
http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/brochures/howto/htvr13.htm
Well here is the 'why' they had to notify CA
Insurance Company Reporting of Total Loss and Nonrepairable Vehicles
As required by VC §§11515 & 11515.2, when an insurance company makes a settlement on a total loss salvage or nonrepairable vehicle, the insurance company must obtain either a Salvage Certificate or Nonrepairable Vehicle Certificate within 10 days from the date of the settlement.
If the vehicle owner retains possession of the vehicle, the insurance company must notify the DMV of that retention and inform the owner of his/her responsibility to obtain a Salvage Certificate or Nonrepairable Vehicle Certificate within 10 days from the date of the settlement
Ok..here's more info you NEED...
What to do after your insurance company settles your accident claim and you keep the vehicle.
You must apply for a Salvage Certificate or Nonrepairable Vehicle Certificate within 10 days after a total loss settlement if you retain the vehicle as a portion of the settlement.
For information on how to obtain a Salvage Certificate or Nonrepairable Vehicle Certificate and reregister a vehicle once it has been salvaged, see one of the following:
How To Obtain a Salvage Certificate or Nonrepairable Vehicle Certificate (HTVR-16)
How To Reregister a Salvage Vehicle (HTVR-13)
Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 03:04 pm Post Subject:
When I totalled my Explorer last fall (backed into a tree :oops: ), I picked up my check from my carrier and signed the proof loss for the amount that I agreed too. I acknowledged the settlement which would have barred me for asking for more. I just recently handled a retention claim for Shelter for their insured, same deal.
You're wrong about this Trench...as I've said...I don't know if this is a company to company thing..if it's when an independent is involved..but I work for one of the 'big four' and never, ever, in the ten years I've worked for them have I done this...
No I'm not. He recieved a proof of loss with his check for the verbal amount. Once he signs it, he acknowledges and agrees to that amount. It must be a company to company type deal.
Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 04:12 pm Post Subject:
I'm still betting that the endorsement REQUIRED OEM parts, if available...FIRST....now if you can prove the OEM parts that are on the sheet are not available..then maybe you can get somewhere...
I believe that he can. If the estimate was prepared with new OEM parts that are not obtainable, the estimate is inaccurate and should not be a basis for total loss consideration. Now with that being said (and that we both have asked if his policy or company policy prohibits the use of AM parts) used parts are still OEM. If the company failed to locate LKQ (used) parts where as the OP's other sources (shop and or appraisal company) where were they located and why has Farmers not taken this into consideration, even after the fact that he verbally agreed to retain salvage, has not signed the paperwork or cashed the check? As I said before, I have seen reverals of total losses at shops I have worked at and have seen it the field for that very reason.
Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 04:21 pm Post Subject:
What I mean that you are wrong about, is ALL carriers don't require something to be signed on an owner retains sal. claim...I wouldn't have any reason to lie about that's how I handle them, and I'd bet on average I total three cars a week..(in past year) and out of those about 25% or so retain...that's what I mean you are wrong about..it very well could be a carrier to carrier thing...that's all I mean...you can't speak for ALL carriers anymore than I can...all we can say is how WE are required to handle them..right? :wink:
I've asked the OP to either post that 'claus' he paid for or type it..without seeing that, we don't know what that contract says...
Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 04:33 pm Post Subject:
What I mean that you are wrong about, is ALL carriers don't require something to be signed on an owner retains sal. claim...
I never said all carriers. I asked that he recieved a check without signing anything. I didn't mean to imply that all carriers required this. :oops:
I wouldn't have any reason to lie about that's how I handle them
Of course not, and I am sure you do.
without seeing that, we don't know what that contract says...
I am pretty sure it is a POL. And all POL that I have obtained/handled were either explicit in obtaining a signature before the release of a check that I was sent and barred the vehicle owner for asking for more money based on the verbal agreement.
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