by Guest » Tue Mar 23, 2010 07:11 pm
Hi, as you may have seen I answered another topic earlier. Now I'm down to specifics and need advice.
Today the Towing company that has held my car hostage finally got paid and towed the car to a local body shop. The insurance co totaled out the car and I'm not 100% sure how much they cut a check for. Right now the leinholder of the car is holding a check expecting only 2500 dollars worth of repairs. The bodyshop re-did the estimate and added another 500 dollars worth of labor to the estimate.
Now, because the accident wasn't my fault and the insurance co. has already settled for less than repair and payoff can I sue the driver for out of pocket expenses?
If you need more specifics please by all means ask. I live in WV.
Today the Towing company that has held my car hostage finally got paid and towed the car to a local body shop. The insurance co totaled out the car and I'm not 100% sure how much they cut a check for. Right now the leinholder of the car is holding a check expecting only 2500 dollars worth of repairs. The bodyshop re-did the estimate and added another 500 dollars worth of labor to the estimate.
Now, because the accident wasn't my fault and the insurance co. has already settled for less than repair and payoff can I sue the driver for out of pocket expenses?
If you need more specifics please by all means ask. I live in WV.
Posted: Wed Mar 24, 2010 12:24 pm Post Subject:
In this state it's up to a certain value of finance. 3,500 dollars I do believe. If I'm wrong then I'm wrong.
This car wasn't bought through any lenders. it's what is known as a "buy here, pay here" lot. Convenient for some people (like myself) but requires a large up front down payment.
Posted: Wed Mar 24, 2010 12:31 pm Post Subject: insurance
Ok...there are ALOT of them, here in PA. Real rip-off's, I think. However...you still need Insurance, on the vehicle, to drive it off the lot. Even the 'buy here-pay here' places require you to have 'Full Coverage' (in PA, anyway) when you get a vehicle from them. They require a LARGE downpayment and you are paying back almost twice (or more) of the 'loan' you took out. However....I know there are people in situations,..where that's about the only choice they may have.
Posted: Wed Mar 24, 2010 12:44 pm Post Subject:
That sounds more like "Rent to own" to me. Actually i'm only paying extra for the taxes, title, and other fees.
No interest or anything like that.
Posted: Wed Mar 24, 2010 01:06 pm Post Subject:
ok...so allstate totaled (yes, they can total it, if the acv, minus salvage is less than the repair cost, and/or if your state has a percentage rule, ie repair cost equals or exceeds 70-80% of the vehicles acv it's a total loss) your car, and says the acv (actual cash value) was 2600, and that is what they issued payment to your leinholder/car lot for..is that correct?
Your contention is the two fold, that they vehicles value is greater than this thus making the vehicle repairable..is that correct?
You say, in your post that payment has been issue and that you 'settled'..sueing the at fault party is going to be difficult, if not impossible if you have already settled with this carrier. Most carriers do not use a release for PD claims however, some put on their draft payments things like, 'full and final settlement' etc...
At some point you surely talked to an adjuster and went over the vehicles value correct? If you'd like to post yr/make/model/mileage etc..I'll run a value, but they HAD to provide you the data showing 'how' they came up with this figure. It's your job to prove them wrong, or to prove your value. Were there any deductions for 'prior unrelated damages'?
One other point. It sounds like this vehicle came from a 'we tote the note' car lot. Most of these lots intentional double or triple the actual value of these vehicles...for a variety of reasons...
Posted: Wed Mar 24, 2010 02:40 pm Post Subject:
I never once asked for them to pay it off. Just repair it.
I realize that. However, obviously the amount to repair it, exceeds the vehicle's value.
ACV = a nice name to DEVALUE something of worth to a consumer, due to any number of reasons. Be them legitimate or not.
No. Everything is based on the actual value. It is legitamate if based on current market information. I understand that you believe the vehicle to be of higher value, but it still boils down to the reflection of the market.
You obviously don't live in this area. According to NADA and KBB (I've read about this forum's dislike of these valuing systems) But those are the bibles for pricing a car in this area. BOTH state around the price I agreed to for this car. But I've also read about the dislike for the "valuation" (Autosource/CCC)system's fraudulent methods to place this so called ACV on a vehicle.
It doesn't matter where I live. The value based information is unique to your area. Your vehicle maybe worth more/less in one area versus another. NADA and KBB are only starting points. You really can't rely soley on those publications, unless there is nothing to base it on. The actual requirements to obtain a vehicle's true value in any given market is more than just looking at NADA or KBB. Dealer quotes, private sales, newspaper adds and other resources must also be obtained to run a value. Sometimes it may take me a day or two to determine a vehicle's value depending on availible information. And to touch upon what Lori said about "buy here pay here" lots, and your comment about the great deal, if infact the ACV came back as it did; you paid almost $5k for $2k car. It's only a fraudulent system if others resources have been ignored to determine the value.
Have you asked or have they presented the evaluation information to you? If not, and you think they have directly or indirectly left information out of the report, you can present your findings to them. I can also help and or direct you to some sources if you like. Besides being an adjuster, I am also a consumer advocate for the collision/insurance industry. I help folks all the time with the exact same situation.
Posted: Wed Mar 24, 2010 04:38 pm Post Subject:
I know what you guys are saying. But the car would have been the same price at a "reputable" car lot as it was at this one.
I have the build sheet to this car, YES they left out options that are on the car that even the untrained eye could point out that adds value to any car. Basically they compared this car to others of a lower trim level and didn't add the extras from the factory. I've already found out the information I needed in my original post. no need in arguing semantics and adding to my strife on getting my car back. But, however Lori I will humor you.
2001 Dodge Neon 173K miles, In general good condition with damage to the right (passenger) front. effecting the Hood, Fender, Bumper cover, underlying structure.
Low velocity impact (~10 MPH)
Posted: Wed Mar 24, 2010 10:05 pm Post Subject:
Ok, well here's the deal..dodge made three neons that year an ES, R/T, and an SE..Depending which one it is, there are only about six options that will add value, regardless of what those options cost when it was new, and about four or so that reduce it's value...that 173k is going to knock 300-350 off the ACV immediately..so as to your comment of
YES they left out options that are on the car that even the untrained eye could point out that adds value to any car
maybe not..as an example on an ES power door locks and window add nothing, because they are included in ES package, but on an SE they add about 75.00 a piece...so see what I mean...Options that you pay extra for when a vehicle is built...do not always continue to add value as the vehicle ages.Really the main point is, it appears you have already accepted their payment...and settled the claim right? I'm assuming your lein holder has probably cashed the draft...so it's going to be difficult, if not impossible for you to go back, (without giving them the draft back), and argue the value.
Posted: Wed Mar 24, 2010 11:57 pm Post Subject:
But the car would have been the same price at a "reputable" car lot as it was at this one.
Still.....? That's the asking price not the ACV. That car could have been listed by 5 dealers asking for $5000.00. They can ask all they want and even get some takers. As determined by the evaluation, your vehicles ACV is around $2k. Now, I have seen my share of insurer mistakes when it comes to determining a value, but I have never seen an evaluation be off by more than a few hundered bucks, if that.
Posted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 12:31 am Post Subject:
Ok, well here's the deal..dodge made three neons that year an ES, R/T, and an SE..Depending which one it is, there are only about six options that will add value, regardless of what those options cost when it was new, and about four or so that reduce it's value...that 173k is going to knock 300-350 off the ACV immediately..
They knocked 750.
Yes I settled. reluctantly.
Trench, you're not seeing my point. it doesn't matter what the car lot was asking. That's a non-issue. The issue I had and no longer care about was the "ACV" I've seen vehicles that could not POSSIBLY be driven again without major attention to the alignment and other factors, thrown together like humpty dumpty with spit and bubblegum. Why? because their value was so outrageously high that the vehicle would have to be all but completely crushed underneath a rock truck before it was totalled. Would I drive something like that? no.
I've seen vehicles that have a so ludicrously low value and get 4x the damage of even it's asking price from a simple fender bender get fixed right now. No questions asked, No ACV determined. Check in adjuster's hand the very same day and re-built with junkyard parts.
No wonder there's such rampant insurance fraud in America. You have to do something illegal just to break even, but the second someone actually does the right thing they get the shaft.
Posted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 12:46 am Post Subject:
Trench, you're not seeing my point. it doesn't matter what the car lot was asking. That's a non-issue.
That's my point. You were saying earlier;
ACV = a nice name to DEVALUE something of worth to a consumer, due to any number of reasons.
I just don't think it's fair to chuck up that much money to have it basically flushed down the toilet.
These two statements sound as if the evaluation should be based on the sale price. If thats what you mean, you are wrong. If that's not what you meant, I apologize.
But, then you go on to say:
I've seen vehicles that have a so ludicrously low value and get 4x the damage of even it's asking price from a simple fender bender get fixed right now.
So I am confused, you keep refering to asking price.
No ACV determined. Check in adjuster's hand the very same day and re-built with junkyard parts.
Because in a case like this, the cost to repair is less than the ACV.
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