how is it possible for auto collision damage estimate jump fron 1992.00 to over 13k in 48 hours
Total Comments: 27
Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 12:04 am Post Subject:
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Tcope,
The following part of your comment was interesting in that with a few word changes it could apply to both Questionable Repairer practices and Questionable Insurer practices.
""The nature of a repair party is to make a good profit on the work they perform. They are allowed to charge any amount they want for the repairs. The nature of the insurance company is to pay _only_ what is owed on a claim, which almost always means the least amount possible. When it comes to a vehicle, this means the insurance company is not going to _guess_ at what needs to be done,"
================
The nature of a insurer party is to make a good profit on the policies they sell. They are allowed to Appraise any amount they want for the repairs. The nature of the insurance company is to pay _only_ what is owed (or less) on a claim, which almost always means the **least amount possible**. When it comes to a vehicle, this means the insurance company is not going to _guess_ at what needs to be done, because that would increase their initial settlement offer.
Surely your not implying that a seasoned adjuster (or even a beginner) could look at an auto with over $11,000.oo in damage and not reasonable know the repairs will be much more than the $1900.oo initial offer of settlement to the vehicle owner.
But then... "As mentioned above, what difference does it make?"
Well lets see... in an less extreme example than the one above it can make a difference.
With today's economy [food, gas, taxes, utilities, insurance, etc.] coupled with Job losses, many people don't have the money to cover their $500 or even $1,000 deductibles. And often just accept the insurer's deliberately low initial "visible damage offer" and keep driving the auto without getting it repaired. Which in turn leaves the car owner without a clue they had just been hosed by their insurer's underpaid settlement.
But then tcope already knew all of the above and more.
Anyway... supplement or not, how could anyone see that $1900 offer as a "Good Faith" offer??
I could be (and likely am) mistaken but isn't that Visual Damage Report an Official first settlement offer?
FK,
Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 12:49 am Post Subject:
not reasonable know the repairs will be much more than the $1900.oo initial offer of settlement to the vehicle owner
Fred, who said anything about an inital offer of settlement? Looks like a premlinary estimate that's all....
Anyway... supplement or not, how could anyone see that $1900 offer as a "Good Faith" offer??
Again Fred where do you see offer anywhere? The OP said,
how is it possible for auto collision damage estimate jump fron 1992.00 to over 13k in 48 hours
With today's economy [food, gas, taxes, utilities, insurance, etc.] coupled with Job losses, many people don't have the money to cover their $500 or even $1,000 deductibles. And often just accept the insurer's deliberately low initial "visible damage offer" and keep driving the auto without getting it repaired. Which in turn leaves the car owner without a clue they had just been hosed by their insurer's underpaid settlement.
I'll agree with you in part, but I have NEVER underwritten an estimate in 23 years...nor have I worked for a carrier that ask their adjusters too, granted I've only worked for two...Let me ask you though, how do you solve this problem? You have to conceed that a carrier will never pay for damages they cannot see or inspect, that's right in the contract, so they will never allow just guessing at a part being damaged...so what should we do as (like it or not) two industrys with mutal customers...oh wait if they aren't repairing then they aren't your customers...should we pay a shop two, three, four, six hours to tear a vehicle down, then maybe not be able to reassy the damaged vehicle so that we can see all the damage, and thus be sure we are paying for all that is damaged? Seriously what is the solution?
I could be (and likely am) mistaken but isn't that Visual Damage Report an Official first settlement offer?
No, it's an 'inital' estimate and that's it....This vehicle was clearly non-driveable and somewhere other than being driven around....so it's no problem, it got to a shop got torn down, and the full scope of damage could be viewed...But let's say a guy has a minor rear end impact...now we all know that with urethan covers there are times, when the damage looks minimal, when indeed the absorber and rebar are hammers, and maybe more, there are further vehicles that after crawling under them the cover, extends all the way back blocking the view of these parts completely...so in this situation, I write to repair or replace whatever the rear cover, then tell the guy, 'look there is more than likely additional damage under this cover, however I can't see it, so I can evaluate it...don't know if parts need to be repair/replaced or if they are fine, so what you need to do, is take it to the shop of your choice give them a copy of my estimate, and tell them to call me when they tear it down if they find more damage or if they need anything other than what i have written BEFORE they repair it'' ... now if the guy doesn't do that, then what am I to do?
Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 01:49 am Post Subject:
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Lori,
You state (in part) "No, it's an 'inital' estimate and that's it...."
When you give that 'initial' estimate to the car owner and they say OK... what ever, and you cut them a Check for your amount... what just happened??
To me that is "Offer" and "Acceptance".
"Done deal", if the car owner is never the wiser to the likely additional damage that was not written do to the insurer's sometimes money saving policy of writing only what you can see.
The OP's numbers are an fine example of how flawed the "Visible Damage Appraisal" is. And as long as Insurer's are Profiting by the use of the "Visible Damage Appraisal" they will do whatever it takes to protect the concept.
I don't foresee them ever coming forward and saying "Hey this "Visible Damage Appraisal" thing has the potential to hurt many loyal insured's. We have to find another way"
Nope... you won't see that without a Court Order.
FK,
Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 09:50 am Post Subject:
writing only what you can see.
What do you recommend Fred? It's a visual inspection...there is no ''done deal'' in physical damage claims, (unless a total loss)...no release etc..(except rare occurances). I ask you again Fred, what is the solution? I'm being serious what is the solution?
Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 12:35 pm Post Subject:
.
.
.
Lori,
""what is the solution?""
Well, the answer certainly is NOT the insurer's badly flawed Visible Damage Appraisal..!!
Repairing automobiles, homes, human bodies, etc. is NOT the business of Insurance and insurers should not be meddling with (coercing) these businesses.
To the best of my limited knowledge the insured only has an obligation to allow an insurer the opportunity to verify there is damage and that damage is covered under the Insurance Policy. NOT Attempt to SET THE PRICE of REPAIRS. That's a repairers job. The one that actually fixes cars..!
Insurer's as an industry set the price of insurance as the market (consumer) will allow.
And
Repairer's as an Profession set the price of repair as the market (consumer) will allow.
That's the Free Market this country was built from.
But... Insurer's with their seemingly endless supply of Money and Influence constantly interfere with the concept of consumer driven Free Trade.
So much for my Rambling Rant. It likely will fall on Deaf Eye's anyway.
I don't do supplements, I do Final Bills and give them to my customer to pay in full.
BECAUSE.....
In my personal Opinion:
Point - 1. The consumer has an agreement with the Repairer to repair their auto as discussed between the repairer and the car owner.
Point - 2. The consumer has an agreement with the Insurer that says the insurer will pay for any covered loss, minus any deductible if applicable.
Point - 3. The Repairer is not listed anywhere in the consumers Insurance Policy and has no rights or obligations with or to the consumer's insurer.
Point - 4 The Insurer is not listed anywhere in the consumers agreement of repair with the Repairer, leaving the repairer with no rights or obligations with or to the consumer's insurer.
Point - 5 The repairer has no automatic right discussing and/or modifying that repair agreement at the request of any third party, which would include (but not limited to) representatives from, insurance co.'s, bank's, law firm's, in-law's, grandma, etc.
So... lets see.
Who is my customer? The consumer.
Who's responsibility is it to pay me? The consumer.
If the actual repair is less than the estimate I wrote, who do I charge less? The consumer
If the actual repair is more than the estimate I wrote, who do I charge more? The consumer.
Just like most other businesses on the Planet..!
I'm NOT a Claims Handler, I Fix Cars. It really simplifies things.
Its not my insurance policy, and its not the insurance companies automobile.
Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 01:01 pm Post Subject:
Well Fred you are incorrect....re:
To the best of my limited knowledge the insured only has an obligation to allow an insurer the opportunity to verify there is damage and that damage is covered under the Insurance Policy. NOT Attempt to SET THE PRICE of REPAIRS.
Read your policy...I'll quote from a MO policy..." Cost to repair is determined by US...We base that determination on our knowledge of the prices repair facilites chare in teh geographic area where the repair is to be done...To aid us in determining cost to repair we may use any one or more of the databases, appraisal tools and other methods the insurance idustry commonly uses to determine those charges"...(remember I didn't write this)....
I don't do supplements, I do Final Bills and give them to my customer to pay in full.
You don't? hmm so a guy comes by says I want an estimate to repair this 1/4 and door, you say, well don't know till I do it? Or you just let the guy leave the vehicle and then give him a whollop of a surprise when he comes to pick it up with your ''final bill'' come on Fred...You have to have some discussion on the front end of the job about what the estimated cost of repair will be...actually depending on your state, that is a law...so you're telling us...no body knows or has any idea of the cost of repairs done in your shop until the job is done? Sorry buddy I don't believe that for a second....
Well, the answer certainly is NOT the insurer's badly flawed Visible Damage Appraisal..!!
Again I ask you what is the solution? You have a lot of rhetoric, but no solution...I'm serious you tell me how to handle this...
Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 02:31 pm Post Subject:
Read your policy...I'll quote from a MO policy..." Cost to repair is determined by US...We base that determination on our knowledge of the prices repair facilites chare in teh geographic area where the repair is to be done...To aid us in determining cost to repair we may use any one or more of the databases, appraisal tools and other methods the insurance idustry commonly uses to determine those charges"...(remember I didn't write this)....
Thank you Lori, the above is an excellent example of ""Insurer's with their seemingly endless supply of Money and Influence constantly interfere with the concept of consumer driven Free Trade.""
""I don't do supplements, I do Final Bills and give them to my customer to pay in full.
You don't? hmm so a guy comes by says I want an estimate to repair this 1/4 and door, you say, well don't know till I do it? Or you just let the guy leave the vehicle and then give him a whollop of a surprise when he comes to pick it up with your ''final bill'' come on Fred...You have to have some discussion on the front end of the job about what the estimated cost of repair will be...actually depending on your state, that is a law...so you're telling us...no body knows or has any idea of the cost of repairs done in your shop until the job is done? Sorry buddy I don't believe that for a second.... Quote:""
There ya go... blowin smoke..!
What's the matter? Did I get to close to the truth?? Is that what put you into Attack mode?
Anyway.
What comes first, an Estimate or supplement??
Where in any of my Posts on this board or any other have I ever said I do not write an estimate??
Actually, with many of my customer pay jobs, they/we discuss what they want done and schedule the repair. They don't even mention estimate or cost... Why... you must be wondering??
Because my customers understand the value and consistency of my services. They like not having to return later to have something re-done or re-adjusted.
They know my character and that I will do a professional, timely, complete repair at an very reasonable price. With or without an estimate. I'm sure you will have an difficult time with such a concept, but, unknown to many insurer's, not everyone in the auto repair business is a low life crook.
==============
As for how to fix the VDR problem...... That's your industries problem, You figure it out. Throw some ideas out on the board and we can all add our two cents worth of comment. Who knows, maybe an good idea will surface.
Insurer's really need to find a better way to protect their customers from unfair claims practices such as the VDR (Visual Damage Report).
I'm sure the OP of this thread would agree.
FK,
But like I stated earlier, __ "It likely will fall on Deaf Eye's anyway."__
Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 04:26 pm Post Subject:
Thank you Lori, the above is an excellent example of ""Insurer's with their seemingly endless supply of Money and Influence constantly interfere with the concept of consumer driven Free Trade.""
Don't kill the messenger Fred, I simply copied it from a policy...Didn't write it.... :roll:
There ya go... blowin smoke..!
What's the matter? Did I get to close to the truth?? Is that what put you into Attack mode?
WHAT? Are you in the wrong thread? What smoke? What attack mode? you said you NEVER have supplements I ask you how that is at all possible...and that is smoke blowin' and attack? What truth? Seriously Fred, what are you talking about..you made this statement....not me.....
I don't do supplements, I do Final Bills and give them to my customer to pay in full.
I simply ask you to explain how on earth that is possible? You still haven't explained that either...
What comes first, an Estimate or supplement??
aaaaaaa an estimate....
Where in any of my Posts on this board or any other have I ever said I do not write an estimate??
Ok, I see I guess I misunderstood your symatic game...how is....
I don't do supplements, I do Final Bills and give them to my customer to pay in full.
a ''final bill'' not a supplelment if you are writing an estimate? If it is not EXACTLY the same as the estimate, that now I understand you write, then your ''final bill'' IS a supplement...higher or lower...the word supplement in this context means that something has changed...so Fred, you are writing supplements..you just chose to call them final bills, ok, that's fine it's still the same thing...
They don't even mention estimate or cost
Must have an affluent clientele because I don't know ANYONE that would give any shop or anyone for that matter an open check book.....that is no reflections on you, do you go to any business and do that?? Guess if you have an endless source of money it wouldn't be an issue...
They know my character and that I will do a professional, timely, complete repair at an very reasonable price. With or without an estimate. I'm sure you will have an difficult time with such a concept, but, unknown to many insurer's, not everyone in the auto repair business is a low life crook.
I have no issue with your character or the type of job you do or don't do....you entered this thread complaining about field written estimates, and I've explained to you how this occurs, you accuse the ins industry of intentionally underwriting to rip people off, when I ask you time and time again to help find a solution, you won't and do you know why? Because there is none...You can only write what you can see...as fas as the low life crook comment...I've never said that all shops are low life crooks, I worked in a shop for several years, and some of my dearest and best friends are techs/managers/ and owners...so that little comment doesn't hold a lick of water...wish you could or would say the same about adjusters... :roll: .once again Fred...what is the solution?
Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 05:34 pm Post Subject:
Did you miss this at the end of my last Post??
As for how to fix the VDR problem...... That's your industries problem, You figure it out.
Throw some ideas out on the board and we can all add our two cents worth of comment. Who
knows, maybe an good idea will surface.
Insurer's really need to find a better way to protect their customers from unfair claims
practices such as the VDR (Visible Damage Report).
I'm sure the OP of this thread would agree.
FK,
But like I stated earlier, __ "It likely will fall on Deaf Eye's anyway."__
Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 09:44 pm Post Subject:
Did you miss this at the end of my last Post??
Actually I did Fred...sorry about that... :oops:
But like I stated earlier, __ "It likely will fall on Deaf Eye's anyway."__
That's not true Fred, I've got my hearing aid turned up as loud as it will go... :wink: :lol:
Well the only thing I can think of is if the owner of the vehicle would agree to pay the tear down fee (assuming they are not going to repair it) to the shop for a full inspection, and the shop could then make another 'pitch' for the job. But then you run into the problem of what if there is no additional damage? Then the owner is out that 1-2-3-4 hours and runs the risk of the vehicle not going back together...any thoughts?
Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 12:04 am Post Subject:
.
.
.
Tcope,
The following part of your comment was interesting in that with a few word changes it could apply to both Questionable Repairer practices and Questionable Insurer practices.
""The nature of a repair party is to make a good profit on the work they perform. They are allowed to charge any amount they want for the repairs. The nature of the insurance company is to pay _only_ what is owed on a claim, which almost always means the least amount possible. When it comes to a vehicle, this means the insurance company is not going to _guess_ at what needs to be done,"
================
The nature of a insurer party is to make a good profit on the policies they sell. They are allowed to Appraise any amount they want for the repairs. The nature of the insurance company is to pay _only_ what is owed (or less) on a claim, which almost always means the **least amount possible**. When it comes to a vehicle, this means the insurance company is not going to _guess_ at what needs to be done, because that would increase their initial settlement offer.
Surely your not implying that a seasoned adjuster (or even a beginner) could look at an auto with over $11,000.oo in damage and not reasonable know the repairs will be much more than the $1900.oo initial offer of settlement to the vehicle owner.
But then... "As mentioned above, what difference does it make?"
Well lets see... in an less extreme example than the one above it can make a difference.
With today's economy [food, gas, taxes, utilities, insurance, etc.] coupled with Job losses, many people don't have the money to cover their $500 or even $1,000 deductibles. And often just accept the insurer's deliberately low initial "visible damage offer" and keep driving the auto without getting it repaired. Which in turn leaves the car owner without a clue they had just been hosed by their insurer's underpaid settlement.
But then tcope already knew all of the above and more.
Anyway... supplement or not, how could anyone see that $1900 offer as a "Good Faith" offer??
I could be (and likely am) mistaken but isn't that Visual Damage Report an Official first settlement offer?
FK,
Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 12:49 am Post Subject:
not reasonable know the repairs will be much more than the $1900.oo initial offer of settlement to the vehicle owner
Fred, who said anything about an inital offer of settlement? Looks like a premlinary estimate that's all....Anyway... supplement or not, how could anyone see that $1900 offer as a "Good Faith" offer??
Again Fred where do you see offer anywhere? The OP said,how is it possible for auto collision damage estimate jump fron 1992.00 to over 13k in 48 hours
With today's economy [food, gas, taxes, utilities, insurance, etc.] coupled with Job losses, many people don't have the money to cover their $500 or even $1,000 deductibles. And often just accept the insurer's deliberately low initial "visible damage offer" and keep driving the auto without getting it repaired. Which in turn leaves the car owner without a clue they had just been hosed by their insurer's underpaid settlement.
I'll agree with you in part, but I have NEVER underwritten an estimate in 23 years...nor have I worked for a carrier that ask their adjusters too, granted I've only worked for two...Let me ask you though, how do you solve this problem? You have to conceed that a carrier will never pay for damages they cannot see or inspect, that's right in the contract, so they will never allow just guessing at a part being damaged...so what should we do as (like it or not) two industrys with mutal customers...oh wait if they aren't repairing then they aren't your customers...should we pay a shop two, three, four, six hours to tear a vehicle down, then maybe not be able to reassy the damaged vehicle so that we can see all the damage, and thus be sure we are paying for all that is damaged? Seriously what is the solution?I could be (and likely am) mistaken but isn't that Visual Damage Report an Official first settlement offer?
No, it's an 'inital' estimate and that's it....This vehicle was clearly non-driveable and somewhere other than being driven around....so it's no problem, it got to a shop got torn down, and the full scope of damage could be viewed...But let's say a guy has a minor rear end impact...now we all know that with urethan covers there are times, when the damage looks minimal, when indeed the absorber and rebar are hammers, and maybe more, there are further vehicles that after crawling under them the cover, extends all the way back blocking the view of these parts completely...so in this situation, I write to repair or replace whatever the rear cover, then tell the guy, 'look there is more than likely additional damage under this cover, however I can't see it, so I can evaluate it...don't know if parts need to be repair/replaced or if they are fine, so what you need to do, is take it to the shop of your choice give them a copy of my estimate, and tell them to call me when they tear it down if they find more damage or if they need anything other than what i have written BEFORE they repair it'' ... now if the guy doesn't do that, then what am I to do?Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 01:49 am Post Subject:
'
'
'
Lori,
You state (in part) "No, it's an 'inital' estimate and that's it...."
When you give that 'initial' estimate to the car owner and they say OK... what ever, and you cut them a Check for your amount... what just happened??
To me that is "Offer" and "Acceptance".
"Done deal", if the car owner is never the wiser to the likely additional damage that was not written do to the insurer's sometimes money saving policy of writing only what you can see.
The OP's numbers are an fine example of how flawed the "Visible Damage Appraisal" is. And as long as Insurer's are Profiting by the use of the "Visible Damage Appraisal" they will do whatever it takes to protect the concept.
I don't foresee them ever coming forward and saying "Hey this "Visible Damage Appraisal" thing has the potential to hurt many loyal insured's. We have to find another way"
Nope... you won't see that without a Court Order.
FK,
Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 09:50 am Post Subject:
writing only what you can see.
What do you recommend Fred? It's a visual inspection...there is no ''done deal'' in physical damage claims, (unless a total loss)...no release etc..(except rare occurances). I ask you again Fred, what is the solution? I'm being serious what is the solution?Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 12:35 pm Post Subject:
.
.
.
Lori,
""what is the solution?""
Well, the answer certainly is NOT the insurer's badly flawed Visible Damage Appraisal..!!
Repairing automobiles, homes, human bodies, etc. is NOT the business of Insurance and insurers should not be meddling with (coercing) these businesses.
To the best of my limited knowledge the insured only has an obligation to allow an insurer the opportunity to verify there is damage and that damage is covered under the Insurance Policy. NOT Attempt to SET THE PRICE of REPAIRS. That's a repairers job. The one that actually fixes cars..!
Insurer's as an industry set the price of insurance as the market (consumer) will allow.
And
Repairer's as an Profession set the price of repair as the market (consumer) will allow.
That's the Free Market this country was built from.
But... Insurer's with their seemingly endless supply of Money and Influence constantly interfere with the concept of consumer driven Free Trade.
So much for my Rambling Rant. It likely will fall on Deaf Eye's anyway.
FK,
===============================
=================================
===============================
I don't do supplements, I do Final Bills and give them to my customer to pay in full.
BECAUSE.....
In my personal Opinion:
Point - 1. The consumer has an agreement with the Repairer to repair their auto as discussed between the repairer and the car owner.
Point - 2. The consumer has an agreement with the Insurer that says the insurer will pay for any covered loss, minus any deductible if applicable.
Point - 3. The Repairer is not listed anywhere in the consumers Insurance Policy and has no rights or obligations with or to the consumer's insurer.
Point - 4 The Insurer is not listed anywhere in the consumers agreement of repair with the Repairer, leaving the repairer with no rights or obligations with or to the consumer's insurer.
Point - 5 The repairer has no automatic right discussing and/or modifying that repair agreement at the request of any third party, which would include (but not limited to) representatives from, insurance co.'s, bank's, law firm's, in-law's, grandma, etc.
So... lets see.
Who is my customer? The consumer.
Who's responsibility is it to pay me? The consumer.
If the actual repair is less than the estimate I wrote, who do I charge less? The consumer
If the actual repair is more than the estimate I wrote, who do I charge more? The consumer.
Just like most other businesses on the Planet..!
I'm NOT a Claims Handler, I Fix Cars. It really simplifies things.
Its not my insurance policy, and its not the insurance companies automobile.
Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 01:01 pm Post Subject:
Well Fred you are incorrect....re:
To the best of my limited knowledge the insured only has an obligation to allow an insurer the opportunity to verify there is damage and that damage is covered under the Insurance Policy. NOT Attempt to SET THE PRICE of REPAIRS.
Read your policy...I'll quote from a MO policy..." Cost to repair is determined by US...We base that determination on our knowledge of the prices repair facilites chare in teh geographic area where the repair is to be done...To aid us in determining cost to repair we may use any one or more of the databases, appraisal tools and other methods the insurance idustry commonly uses to determine those charges"...(remember I didn't write this)....I don't do supplements, I do Final Bills and give them to my customer to pay in full.
You don't? hmm so a guy comes by says I want an estimate to repair this 1/4 and door, you say, well don't know till I do it? Or you just let the guy leave the vehicle and then give him a whollop of a surprise when he comes to pick it up with your ''final bill'' come on Fred...You have to have some discussion on the front end of the job about what the estimated cost of repair will be...actually depending on your state, that is a law...so you're telling us...no body knows or has any idea of the cost of repairs done in your shop until the job is done? Sorry buddy I don't believe that for a second....
Well, the answer certainly is NOT the insurer's badly flawed Visible Damage Appraisal..!!
Again I ask you what is the solution? You have a lot of rhetoric, but no solution...I'm serious you tell me how to handle this...Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 02:31 pm Post Subject:
Read your policy...I'll quote from a MO policy..." Cost to repair is determined by US...We base that determination on our knowledge of the prices repair facilites chare in teh geographic area where the repair is to be done...To aid us in determining cost to repair we may use any one or more of the databases, appraisal tools and other methods the insurance idustry commonly uses to determine those charges"...(remember I didn't write this)....
Thank you Lori, the above is an excellent example of ""Insurer's with their seemingly endless supply of Money and Influence constantly interfere with the concept of consumer driven Free Trade.""
""I don't do supplements, I do Final Bills and give them to my customer to pay in full.
You don't? hmm so a guy comes by says I want an estimate to repair this 1/4 and door, you say, well don't know till I do it? Or you just let the guy leave the vehicle and then give him a whollop of a surprise when he comes to pick it up with your ''final bill'' come on Fred...You have to have some discussion on the front end of the job about what the estimated cost of repair will be...actually depending on your state, that is a law...so you're telling us...no body knows or has any idea of the cost of repairs done in your shop until the job is done? Sorry buddy I don't believe that for a second.... Quote:""
There ya go... blowin smoke..!
What's the matter? Did I get to close to the truth?? Is that what put you into Attack mode?
Anyway.
What comes first, an Estimate or supplement??
Where in any of my Posts on this board or any other have I ever said I do not write an estimate??
Actually, with many of my customer pay jobs, they/we discuss what they want done and schedule the repair. They don't even mention estimate or cost... Why... you must be wondering??
Because my customers understand the value and consistency of my services. They like not having to return later to have something re-done or re-adjusted.
They know my character and that I will do a professional, timely, complete repair at an very reasonable price. With or without an estimate. I'm sure you will have an difficult time with such a concept, but, unknown to many insurer's, not everyone in the auto repair business is a low life crook.
==============
As for how to fix the VDR problem...... That's your industries problem, You figure it out. Throw some ideas out on the board and we can all add our two cents worth of comment. Who knows, maybe an good idea will surface.
Insurer's really need to find a better way to protect their customers from unfair claims practices such as the VDR (Visual Damage Report).
I'm sure the OP of this thread would agree.
FK,
But like I stated earlier, __ "It likely will fall on Deaf Eye's anyway."__
Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 04:26 pm Post Subject:
Thank you Lori, the above is an excellent example of ""Insurer's with their seemingly endless supply of Money and Influence constantly interfere with the concept of consumer driven Free Trade.""
Don't kill the messenger Fred, I simply copied it from a policy...Didn't write it.... :roll:There ya go... blowin smoke..!
WHAT? Are you in the wrong thread? What smoke? What attack mode? you said you NEVER have supplements I ask you how that is at all possible...and that is smoke blowin' and attack? What truth? Seriously Fred, what are you talking about..you made this statement....not me.....What's the matter? Did I get to close to the truth?? Is that what put you into Attack mode?
I don't do supplements, I do Final Bills and give them to my customer to pay in full.
I simply ask you to explain how on earth that is possible? You still haven't explained that either...What comes first, an Estimate or supplement??
aaaaaaa an estimate....Where in any of my Posts on this board or any other have I ever said I do not write an estimate??
Ok, I see I guess I misunderstood your symatic game...how is....I don't do supplements, I do Final Bills and give them to my customer to pay in full.
a ''final bill'' not a supplelment if you are writing an estimate? If it is not EXACTLY the same as the estimate, that now I understand you write, then your ''final bill'' IS a supplement...higher or lower...the word supplement in this context means that something has changed...so Fred, you are writing supplements..you just chose to call them final bills, ok, that's fine it's still the same thing...They don't even mention estimate or cost
Must have an affluent clientele because I don't know ANYONE that would give any shop or anyone for that matter an open check book.....that is no reflections on you, do you go to any business and do that?? Guess if you have an endless source of money it wouldn't be an issue...They know my character and that I will do a professional, timely, complete repair at an very reasonable price. With or without an estimate. I'm sure you will have an difficult time with such a concept, but, unknown to many insurer's, not everyone in the auto repair business is a low life crook.
I have no issue with your character or the type of job you do or don't do....you entered this thread complaining about field written estimates, and I've explained to you how this occurs, you accuse the ins industry of intentionally underwriting to rip people off, when I ask you time and time again to help find a solution, you won't and do you know why? Because there is none...You can only write what you can see...as fas as the low life crook comment...I've never said that all shops are low life crooks, I worked in a shop for several years, and some of my dearest and best friends are techs/managers/ and owners...so that little comment doesn't hold a lick of water...wish you could or would say the same about adjusters... :roll: .once again Fred...what is the solution?Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 05:34 pm Post Subject:
Did you miss this at the end of my last Post??
As for how to fix the VDR problem...... That's your industries problem, You figure it out.
Throw some ideas out on the board and we can all add our two cents worth of comment. Who
knows, maybe an good idea will surface.
Insurer's really need to find a better way to protect their customers from unfair claims
practices such as the VDR (Visible Damage Report).
I'm sure the OP of this thread would agree.
FK,
But like I stated earlier, __ "It likely will fall on Deaf Eye's anyway."__
Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 09:44 pm Post Subject:
Did you miss this at the end of my last Post??
Actually I did Fred...sorry about that... :oops:But like I stated earlier, __ "It likely will fall on Deaf Eye's anyway."__
That's not true Fred, I've got my hearing aid turned up as loud as it will go... :wink: :lol:Well the only thing I can think of is if the owner of the vehicle would agree to pay the tear down fee (assuming they are not going to repair it) to the shop for a full inspection, and the shop could then make another 'pitch' for the job. But then you run into the problem of what if there is no additional damage? Then the owner is out that 1-2-3-4 hours and runs the risk of the vehicle not going back together...any thoughts?
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