by Guest » Sat Feb 18, 2006 10:21 am
My cousin Bob and another guy went for a long drive last Saturday evening and got struck by a rash driver from a distance. The bully escaped narrowly but was trapped later in the morning .The repair works for Bob would be somewhat around $4000. Bob's insurer had agreed to support him with aftermarket body parts for his vehicle, to which Bob's reaction was simple and stern. He did not want his insurer to provide him with aftermarket parts. He maintained that it was his insurer's job to collect the new parts from the tormentor. He had a hard time convincing the insurance representative till he revealed his other identity as an attorney.
Of late his insurance company has offered him new market parts, and also expressed their willingness to resolve matters soon. Could we ever look forward to a hassle-free world ?
Regards,
Blackberry
Of late his insurance company has offered him new market parts, and also expressed their willingness to resolve matters soon. Could we ever look forward to a hassle-free world ?
Regards,
Blackberry
Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 01:31 am Post Subject:
Out of curiousity Mike, what are your door rate? any rates any different for anyone else? How much did you spend last year with say keystone? Since you work for the owner Mike and have zero contact with the insurance company, how many times has an owner came to your shop with an insurance sheet that showed all new oem parts, but because the owner wanted to skirt their deductible you and he 'agreed' to switch that 300 oem fender to a 150 a/m one, thus saving him 150bucks off his deductible, ever happen? And if you are ok using non-oem parts if the owner is ok with it...then what on earth is your problem? In our state non-oem parts are required to be disclosed...so the owners KNOW they are getting non-oem..most people have no issue with this if they are capa and understand that this keeps all costs down.
Lori, you have me confused with one of your drp shops or others like them trying to cover their discounts to insurers and lower "agreed to" labor rates in exchange for those referrals. I am more likely to install oem when an insurer paid only for crapa parts out of my profit because I didn't want problems with fit or corrosion protection. I don't save deductibles. Deductibles are not my problem, I contract with the vehicle owner for repairs they specify based on my estimate of repairs and not based on an insurer guestimate. As a shopowner, you can't sit in court and claim the big bad insurer made me fix it the way they paid for, because the judge knows that insurers are not repair experts.
I also do not have to give as much as 10 percent of my parts profit and 4 to 5 dollars an hour of my labor in exchange for those referrals. I get paid for storage, administrative fees, disassembly of total losses for assessment of repairs. Since I operate a smaller business with less overhead (benefits to insurers), I can choose to purchase oem over a/m junk and make sure repairs move quickly to avoid insurer hassles for my consumers and give any benefits to the vehicle owner who deserves them for choosing me over a discounts to the insurer corner cutting shop. That's right folks, your insurer gets as much as 10 percent kickback from parts and an additional savings in labor when they can convince you to use their preferred shop, because that shop is paying for that referral. Who do you think that shop is going to bow down to when you have problems that can not be resolved? That's when you find out how little the insurer warranty is worth. You aren't being steered to the best shops in your area, you are being steered to shops that agree to work the cheapest and give discounts and benefits back to the insurer. You could be making a huge mistake taking this route, because it's been discovered that some of these shops are cheating the consumer and the insurer on the deal to remain on these preferred lists.
You are mistaken that I am okay with customers using a/m parts. When they have an insurer that feels crapa parts are okay to use for hoods and fenders when they have not been crash tested, I simply have the vehicle owner sign a hold harmless document that states that the insurer specified those parts against the repair experts estimate of recommendation or estimate of repairs. They must sign a disclosure why they (the owner) contracted with me for crapa parts. Something to the effect that they could not afford the difference or the insurer refused to pay for oem. This simply resolves any non fit or warranty issues with those parts and places the liability back on the insurer and the owner who specified that only those parts be used in the repair. In a subsequent law suit for failure of those parts, I will still be sued but I will be able to produce a document that showed the owner and the insurer refused to pay for oem crash tested and proven parts. We simply do not play the game of trying to make them fit since insurers do not pay for test fitting of parts. Afterall, why should they; these ill-fitting, non-corrosion treated parts are guaranteed to be equal to the original. Warranty of those parts falls back on those who distributed, sold, and specified those parts. I can sit back and confidently tell a vehicle owner, I told you they wouldn't fit or they would not be equal to the oem, your problem is with your insurer who said they were equal to the oem.
Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 03:32 am Post Subject:
...but we disagree as to whether insurers tell consumers where they can have their vehicles repaired.
I don't think we disagree on this matter. Insurance companies do recommend shops. There is no doubt about that.If I had a hundred dollar bill for everytime I had a customer tell me the insurer said "They said I had to take it to their shop", I could have long retired.
I hear that all the time as well. We see it here on this board all of the time as well. I'd have to say 99.99% of the time the vehicle owner is misquoting the adjuster. Of course, many carriers have their adjusters push DRP as much as possible and many carriers monitor the number of people adjusters send to DRPs. While I doubt many adjusters misrepresent this matter, I'm sure some push DRPs way to hard.Maybe you do not experience or practice this but it is heavily handed practiced among the largest insurers in the country and the bottom dwellers.
Nope... I'd agree that many adjusters push DRP's onto people without making sure the person fully understands what is going on. I know of a few carriers that require that an adjuster refer so many people each month. I don't agree with this practice either. But on the other hand I actually do have a lot of people asking for a shop recommendation. I've also had some people even get upset when I don't recommend a shop. But again, I agree that many carriers push DRP's to hard.Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 03:37 am Post Subject:
Not sure where the designer shoe quote came from but it's certainly not apples to apples. First, it would be more akin to a buckle breaking on a design shoe and a replacement bucket being used. But instead of the buckle being 5 or 10 years old, it's brand new. Who's ever going to know the buckle is not the original piece. THAT is apples to apples.
Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 04:37 am Post Subject:
Mr Smith, our shop in your city is Ben Dover or Joe Blow Collision. If you'll take your vehicle to one of those shops, they can arrange for your repairs and you'll not need to see one of our adjusters.
But Mr or Ms Insurance person, I want to take my car to my shop.
But Mr. Smith your shop isn't on our list and we can't guarantee their work.
Mr. or Ms. Insurance, I do not need your guarantee, I am confident my shop can repair my car to my satisfaction and they are required by the state to perform the repairs in a workman like manner and stand behind their own repairs.
Mr. Smith, There most likely will be a ten day delay in getting our appraiser out to inspect your car and our shop can begin repairs without delay.
But Mr or Ms Insurance company, I am paying the same amount for my coverage as other policy holders, why am I being discriminated and penalized for wanting to use my shop.
Mr Smith, your shop will not repair vehicles by our estimate and we have problems with your shop. Actually we are conducting an investigation of your shop.
But Mr. or Ms. Insurance company, I know my shop is reputable and is regarded highly by the community and my friends and associates. Afterall they have been in business for over 25 years and your shop only 10.
Mr Smith, by using our preferred shop we can arrange for you to have a rental immediately.
But Mr or Ms Insurance company, I am entitled to have rental regardless of where my car is fixed according to my policy.
Mr. Smith you are starting to be a problem customer, who told you to actually read your policy. We'll need you to go and obtain three estimates for your repairs, since we can't trust your shop and we have no contract or agreements with them. We'll send them to our auditing firm where our your estimate will be audited for accuracy by one of our claims processors who has no formal training in repairing collision damaged cars and works from photos to discern your damage.
But Mr. and Ms Insurance company, I'll file a complaint to the Department of Insurance.
Mr. Smith, don't be naive, we own your department of insurance, who do you think financed your commissioners election campaign or the govenor who appointed them, and don't even ask about your congressman.
Mr or Ms Insurance company rep, did I mention I am an attorney and I have read my contract of insurance?
Mr. Smith, you go right ahead and take your car to any shop you'd like. We're sorry for any delay and we'll have an adjuster out there first thing tomorrow and a rental car will be arranged.
Only a slight exaggeration:yeah it sounds like nobody is strong armed or intimidated into using the preferred shop to me. It's called steering by word track designed to make sheeple comply or give up.
Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 04:57 am Post Subject:
I have little doubt that many conversations _close_ to this take place every day. Though out some of that stuff and I'd say that _most_ referrals to DRPs sound just like that (lifetime warrenty is mentioned, no 48 hour wait to inspect the vehicle and the shop can start repairs right away, rental can be authorized immediately because the shop can start working immediately. But these are also _valid_ and perfectly legal reason's to use a DRP. Let's make it more clear... a DRP simply speeds up the process of paying on a claim. What is wrong with that? Your exaggerations are in that you make it sound like carriers drag their feet if the person does not use a DRP. Typically a carrier inspects a vehicle within 48-72 hours. From what I've seen, states usually give insurance companies 30 days to settle a claim unless they can show good reason for not being able to do this. Some other states give a carrier 5-10 days to inspect a vehicle. But in most cases vehicles are inspected _much_ more quickly (I've screwed up my fair share of inspections but mistakes are going to be made... they are not the norm).
Let's put this into perspective... a DRP saves a carrier about $100 per vehicle. So it's worth it to some carriers to push DRP's pretty hard, there is no doubt about that. But having the DOI fine a carrier for one complaint negates the value of sending numorous vehicles to a DRP. So it's just not worth crossing the line. But I _know_ it happens and I agree that some carriers press their adjusters too hard when it comes to DRP referrals. No doubt about that.
Still, DRPs are legal, it's fair commerce, and in _most_ cases it's win/win/win situation for the carrier, vehicle owner, and DRP.
Just a note... the last carrier is worked for used DRP's. I seldom mentioned these to anyone. Most of the DRPs were the local dealerships. As such, when someone told me they were going to one of those dealerships, I simply sent the inspection request over and it was a "DRP referal". The problem with DRP programs is when the insurance company does not do their part in monitoring DRP shops and pulling them off the list if they can't hold up their end of the agreement.
Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 11:36 am Post Subject:
Only a slight exaggeration:
That has to be the understatement of the post! :roll: You know that steering is a hugely hot topic (atleast in our state) all the carriers I know, (and I know ALOT)...have a drp script that also includes words like, ''your choice'' 'preserving customer choice'' etc....I'll say it again, I work for one of the top three auto giants....there are NO discounts at all on anything...all the car in my company are required to be inspected no later than 48 hours regardless of their location or drp or not....you and I know that withholding rental saying a non-drp repair etc, is not in line with the fair claims practice....The shops on the drp at my company have to have certain number or square feet, ins requirements, equipment, and trained techs, they can't even get on the program without all of this....as to the warranty in the five or so years I've been a drp rep, I have paid about six warranty's, I also had to remove some shops....the reps that refer vehicles are required to record their conversations to assure that the customer is not steered....so Mike your little made up cartoon is just that....you talk about T and I living in a dream world, I'm tellin' ya' buddy your hate has blinded you to what really goes on...I'm not dillusional and think that some carriers may over sell, but this very very rare...Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 03:29 pm Post Subject:
The only slight exaggeration is with regard to referencing the DOI, commissioner, and legislators, but we all know how much insurance money is parlayed into those areas and how much money insurers spend on lobbying.
The scripts are not an exaggeration at all. They are verified by many consumers and shops alike. Why is there a movement by the three trade organizations that are primary in this state to enact legislation to prevent these types of steering? They reprensent the majority of shops that are on DRP programs and they are hollering the loudest about these word tracts and steering. It's okay to steer away from non drp shops but if you drink the kool aid they shouldn't be steering work away from you. The fact is that bean counters know how to play the industry to get them to work the cheapest and stab each other in the back to keep them infighting amongst themselves. The collision industry has so many factions, it's often discribed as try to herd cats to organize them.
The word tracts are intentionally misleading and scripted in that they can not be challenged as being entirely untrue but they give the consumer the indication that they must use the preferred shop?
So is your company, whether and employer or insurer, among the list at this link" http://www.justice.org/docs/TenWorstInsuranceCompanies.pdf
Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 03:42 pm Post Subject: Mike is right on target
State Farm is fairly new at this game. I have three cars in my shop right now who's owners were told they would not pay for a tow unless it went to a Select Service shop. One of them drove his train wreck in because he didn't want to risk getting stuck with the tow bill. I have a family member who managed a collision repair shop for seventeen years, and now is an adjuster for one of the big three. Because he knows how to repair a vehicle, and the reinspectors don't, he is stuck between what he knows is right and "morphing" performance audits. Lori and T, do you become hardened to these things over time? Do you feel it is becoming harder to give consumers what they are entitled to? Maybe he is in the wrong line of work.
Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 11:34 am Post Subject:
So is your company, whether and employer or insurer, among the list at this link" http://www.justice.org/docs/TenWorstInsuranceCompanies.pdf
Nope, did your realize that list includes health, life etc?Our final
list includes companies across a range of different insurance fields, including homeowners and auto insurers,health insurers, life insurers, and disability insurers.
Lori and T, do you become hardened to these things over time? Do you feel it is becoming harder to give consumers what they are entitled to? Maybe he is in the wrong line of work.
Dave, I write EVERY sheet the way I would repair my own car, every time. If I didn't I wouldn't be able to sleep nights, there is a way to keep your integrity and still do the job. I think those of us that worked in shops and then went to work for insurance carriers, have both an advantage and disadvantage. Is there bs in the job that I wish wasn't there? Well absolutely, but find a job that doesn't have it...People that work at McDonalds have stress and bs to put up with too, you have to figure out a way that you can always do the right thing in your own heart and mind and the job. If for instance the company I work for, would come out with some crazy rule that I HAD to follow and didn't agree with, couldn't get around well I have to go somewhere else that's all there is to it...Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 11:40 am Post Subject:
Dave,
I have three cars in my shop right now who's owners were told they would not pay for a tow unless it went to a Select Service shop.
These people need to contact your states DOI, IMMEDIATELY, they cannot say this, I'm really surprised that something like this was said, if all three would make complaints then something would be done...please try and encourage them to do so, otherwise nothing will ever change.Add your comment