by joncuro » Sat Mar 29, 2008 04:50 am
Hey everyone,
I have some pretty serious questions/insurance issues that I need some help with. First a little background:
About a month ago I was hit on my front left by someone who failed to yield the right of way. Her insurance company claimed liability and after 3 weeks my 2000 Ford Ranger was "fixed". After bringing the truck home I noticed there was a small coolant leak. I had asked the Ford body shop to inspect the whole truck top to bottom as the impact was pretty hard. After hitting me she pushed me across a lane of traffic and we ended up in a grass area on the side of the road, and a sign was lodged under my truck Apparently Ford did not do this, thus me discovering the leak and not them. I took my truck to an very reputable mechanic in town, and right away they recognized that an impact had caused the damage. In their words" natural wear and tear does not happen in this area, anyone who knwos engines should know this. An impact is needed to cause something like this.
After contacting the insurance company, they sent the same appraiser who appraised the damage the first time. A little background about this guy. When he originally appraised the damage I asked him to look at the engine as the check engine light was on. His response was that as an appraiser he does not check the insides of vehicles, only estimates the outside damage and that he was not a mechanic. After checking my truck today, he said that in his opinion, after inspecting the engine, the damage was not caused by the accident. Everything he claims is in direct contradiction to a certified and very reputable mechanic. I asked him what exactly he was basing his opinion on, he mumbled something about a gasket and kept repeating, "its my opinion and thats what I'm reporting to the insurance company". He also claimed that a hard, front side impact in which a car that pushed a 3200 pound truck over a lane and into a grass area would have zero effect on an engine, which sounds completely ridiculous to me. So basically he had nothing to substantiate his "opinion". Naturally I have contacted the insurance agency and disputed this, but now it is the weekend and I won't hear anything for a few days.
So, I'm really just kind of curious how an appraiser who self admittedly is not a mechanic ,and refused to inspect an engine, comes to the conclusion that the damage is not accident related, directly contradicting a reputable mechanic. Is this their job or isn't it? I also find it interesting that with this added damage, the truck would have most certainly been a total loss as it is over $1000 in additional damage. Do I have any recourse here? I now own a truck that should have been totalled.
Any help or advice would be appreciated. thanks
Jon
I have some pretty serious questions/insurance issues that I need some help with. First a little background:
About a month ago I was hit on my front left by someone who failed to yield the right of way. Her insurance company claimed liability and after 3 weeks my 2000 Ford Ranger was "fixed". After bringing the truck home I noticed there was a small coolant leak. I had asked the Ford body shop to inspect the whole truck top to bottom as the impact was pretty hard. After hitting me she pushed me across a lane of traffic and we ended up in a grass area on the side of the road, and a sign was lodged under my truck Apparently Ford did not do this, thus me discovering the leak and not them. I took my truck to an very reputable mechanic in town, and right away they recognized that an impact had caused the damage. In their words" natural wear and tear does not happen in this area, anyone who knwos engines should know this. An impact is needed to cause something like this.
After contacting the insurance company, they sent the same appraiser who appraised the damage the first time. A little background about this guy. When he originally appraised the damage I asked him to look at the engine as the check engine light was on. His response was that as an appraiser he does not check the insides of vehicles, only estimates the outside damage and that he was not a mechanic. After checking my truck today, he said that in his opinion, after inspecting the engine, the damage was not caused by the accident. Everything he claims is in direct contradiction to a certified and very reputable mechanic. I asked him what exactly he was basing his opinion on, he mumbled something about a gasket and kept repeating, "its my opinion and thats what I'm reporting to the insurance company". He also claimed that a hard, front side impact in which a car that pushed a 3200 pound truck over a lane and into a grass area would have zero effect on an engine, which sounds completely ridiculous to me. So basically he had nothing to substantiate his "opinion". Naturally I have contacted the insurance agency and disputed this, but now it is the weekend and I won't hear anything for a few days.
So, I'm really just kind of curious how an appraiser who self admittedly is not a mechanic ,and refused to inspect an engine, comes to the conclusion that the damage is not accident related, directly contradicting a reputable mechanic. Is this their job or isn't it? I also find it interesting that with this added damage, the truck would have most certainly been a total loss as it is over $1000 in additional damage. Do I have any recourse here? I now own a truck that should have been totalled.
Any help or advice would be appreciated. thanks
Jon
Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 05:13 pm Post Subject:
I'm saying that I asked that the truck be fully inspected by both the appraiser and the Ford body shop. The appraiser's answer was that he does not inspect engines( something he directly contradicted on Friday) and the body shop said they would, but there is no record that they did. As far as what repairs are required to remove the radiator I have no idea. I am not a mechanic. From the report I received from Ford and the appraiser, the engine was never checked which is something i requested both of them to do. Which I find completely ridiculous and borderline incompetent by both the appraiser and Ford. The insurance company never suggested a shop. As I said the adjuster was extremely, EXTREMELY difficult to get in touch with. Remember, Ford had to call me to get a number for the insurance company as they hadn't contacted them 3 days after the truck had been towed to their shop.
Everything you siad, the mechanic did with the appraiser. The truck was ona lift, the mechanic reviewed it thoroughly with the appraiser and the appraiser came to the conclusion that the shift damage was not due to the accident. Again, he went so far as to claim that a front end collision would have ZERO effect on an engine. The mechanic seemed completeky surprised and even he said this appraiser was completely unqualified to make any call on it. The appraiser claims that there are replacement parts in the area, suggesting someone had shifted the parts( i don't know how thats even possible) and the mechanic maintains that the parts appear to all be original. Again, everything that the mechanic said seemed accident related, before knowing there was an accident, the appraiser (who deemed himself unable to appraise engine damage) contradicted.
Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 09:14 pm Post Subject:
Ok, the shop dropped the ball, they should've done a complete tear down (duh) and called the appraiser in for a supplement if additional damage was found...too late for that one...the appraiser well, we know his short comings...What I would suggest is that you call the adjuster at the at fault carrier explain all of this, that the appraiser said he didn't know anything about mechanics now he knows enough to deny the damage :roll: and you would like to have an apprasial done hopefully by an adjuster with their company that knows what's going on...or would it be ok with them if you got two or three shops to say that this damage is related...if that adjuster says no, then ask to speak to their supervisor, if they say no (tell them by the way you want this in writing) then file a complaint with your state's Dept of Ins..(they all have web sites)...That is my recommendation...let us know how it turns out or if we can be of further assistance.
Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 09:21 pm Post Subject:
Hey Lori,
just giving you a quick update. The claims agent( the one who is extremely difficult to get in touch with) said she was forwarding the situation to some inhouse division. T&C? or something she called it. Not sure of the exact name. Something control. He gave me a call about 5 mins ago, asked me a couple questions about the condition of the truck pre-accident and was going to give the mechanic a call and get his thoughts. He said he would be calling me back so we will see.
Just as a note. The claims agent flat out lied today when she called. She claimed that she spoke to the mechanic last week and he had said that he saw no accident related damage. Of course he denied this and was pretty angered by it as you can imagine.
Also a note about the shop dropping the ball. According to the claims agent(yes her again;p) she doesn't understand why the appraiser would say he could not check the engine. She also said that while he may not be certified he should be able to make a judgement call of accident related damage. That statement is pretty sad. I'd want a certified expert making these decisions
Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 10:24 am Post Subject:
some inhouse division. T&C?
I don't know what this is either :? unless it's damage control :lol: :roll: for being so goofy... :wink: The appraiser that looked at your vehicle should be able to inspect the entire vehicle for damage, and if he/she doesn't know enough about a certain area, then they should ask for help/advise from someone that does...that's all there is to that...hopefully the supervising adjuster (the one that hired this independent) will either report this behavior to their superior or not hire them again...It sounds like they are atleast looking into it deeper that's good news..please do keep us updated...
Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 08:38 pm Post Subject:
I know the appraiser that I used was not a certified mechanic but had inspected damaged vehicles long enough to know when there was damage. The big problem that I see is how did the shop miss the damage during tear down. Reading back through the posts, I didn't read anywhere what kind of damage there was to the hood. Was it able to be opened? Was the engine accessible during the first inspection? I know my guy would say the same thing to people, “I can't evaluate mechanical repairs due to the condition of the vehicle at this time, and your shop will call me back out once tear down is complete if they find additional damage”. Knowing how people only hear what they want to hear, some people would only hear “I can't evaluate mechanical repairs”. The shop dropped the ball in not noticing the damage prior to repairing the vehicle. If they would have noticed the damage and called the appraiser prior to the vehicle being repaired this would have been handled on the spot. An insurance company could look at it as you had custody of the vehicle for how long... a day... or more.... what did you do to the vehicle since you had custody of it?
That being said, it does appear that the appraiser is being unreasonable to a reasonable cause of damage… and it sounds as if it will be taken care of.
Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 10:49 pm Post Subject:
The hood was able to be opened and closed. The tire was snapped so only that area was inaccessible. I understand our trying to get a clear view of things but I did not hear what I wanted to hear. It was what he said and I was very displeased when he said it. I'm not sure if the shop "missed" it or they never did a tear down in the first place. Obviously I'm very disappointed in the Ford Body shop, appraiser service, and the insurance company itself. Yes, the shop should have called it and notified the appraiser, but the appraiser seems completely unreliable.
I don't know what you are trying to get at with what I did to the vehicle snce taking custody. I drove it back and forth from school and work. I happened to check the fluids a week or so after, and noticed both my radiator and reserve were bone dry. I was pretty pissed since that could have ruined my engine. The temp gauge never went past middle. Thats when I noticed that the leak i thought was just AC water was actually coolant. NOTHING happened to the truck that could have caused this damage after I received it back.
Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 12:39 am Post Subject:
Lori,
I'm curious if you could check out the Total/value of my truck if that is within your power. I'll give you any info you need. I'd just really like to see something
Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 02:52 am Post Subject:
I was not getting at anything, only pointing out that the insurance company could look at it as you had the vehicle back for x amount of time and could question what happened between the time your car was fixed and released to you and the time that you took the car to your mechanic. Myself, I can't comment on what happened as I did not see your vehicle, only pointing out that these types of things happen and I have seen insurance companies handle them differently.
If the engine was accessible, then the appraiser was just being lazy figuring the shop would catch all additional damage and just call him. A lot of independent appraisers get paid per car, and not how much damage or how long it actually takes them to do the appraisal. So they usually want to get in an out and rely on the shops to do most of the inspection for them.
Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 04:15 am Post Subject:
Ok so here is where I am right now.
The guy from the insurance company's special division that handles this type of problem asks the mechanic to prove it was damage caused by the accident. There apparently is no smoking gun, but the meachanic swears whatever is wrong with the truck is not a normal wear and tear occurance. He claims he has NEVER seen this happen naturally in all of his experience. The insurance guy basically kept saying "prove it" and offered no other explanation of what could have caused it. They know it is not normal but are putting the burden on me to prove it was the accident that caused the damage. They insurance guy left off with the mechanic saying he needed to speak to his supervisor and go from there. Amazing.
So what now? it's becoming very obvious they have no intention on fixing the vehicle. Their tactic of putting the burden of proof on me is completel BS. This is what I know. My truck was not leaking coolant before the accident. After a forceful, front end impact, it was leaking fluid. It sort of seems like the classic US vs THEM game, so is there a way to get a 3rd party involved?
I imagine I'll be talking to the insurance company in the morning. Any advice?
Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 04:46 am Post Subject:
Yes the burden of proof is on you to prove your loss and no they don't have to give an alternative explanation as to what happened to cause the "new" damage. The burden of proof is always on the person making the claim. And yes I understand your problems with the appraiser, but to be honest they are there to basically make sure that the claimed damage is actually there either during the initial inspection or additional inspections if additional damage is found. This is the problem with the shop missing the damage prior to you taking the vehicle.
Solutions:
Were there any photos taken of the vehicle after the accident, either at the scene or at the original shop that might show the engine? Have you taken the vehicle back to the original shop and spoke to them and have them look at it? They maybe able to assist you or you could go after them. Lori might be able to give you more advice as to other proof that you could come up with or other avenues to pursue.
As far as dealing with the insurance company, I would say really all you can do is appeal to their humanity and any common sense they have, since at this point you don't have any actual proof. Be nice and stay calm and don't burn bridges since even another no is not a final answer, as there is no final answer until you go away. Explain that you had the vehicle for only x number of days since the original repairs and that this type of shifting could not have happened any other way without new body damage.
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