Auto accident in WI - 3 vehicles

by Guest » Tue Mar 11, 2008 09:41 pm

The short version: Slick ice, northbound milk truck slid into southbound lane ditch with rear bumper still sticking out into southbound lane. I (southbound) tried to avoid the milk truck but couldn't and my car sustained damage to right side.
A 3rd northbound vehicle slides into my vehicle left side. The 3rd vehicle insurer comes out before my insurer and says my vehicle is not totaled and cuts a check for their part of the damage.
My insurer comes later and says that the other drivers insurer should not have cut a check because my insurer says they they are supposed to do that. And, my insurer says my car (96 VW Passat TDI S/W) is totaled.
Can have the left side damage fixed separately from the right side damage and have two separate checks cut instead of what my insurer says must happen?
PS: I do plan on repairing the vehicle.

Thanks, Kurt

Total Comments: 33

Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 12:54 pm Post Subject:

I am disputing the value of the vehicle that my carrier came up with. I am not disputing the total cost of repairs.

Yeah, I got that.

My carrier says no because they have to physically see the vehicle. Why?

My carrier says no because they have to physically see the vehicle. Why? They established the pre-accident value of my vehicle based on 3 similar vehicles that they never physically saw. They only had a description and pictures. Why cant the value of my vehicle (pre-accident) be figured the same way. I have provided a very detailed description of the vehicle as well as before and after pictures.

I see your point, but without seeing your vehicle (and they did inspect your vehicle right?) then the appraiser cannot acruately evaluate the condition of your vehicle...The pictures could be 'doctored'...However you make a good point, and one I would push is that (as I see it) there is no dispute regarding the condition of your vehicle right? The adjuster saw it etc...so the dispute is lying solely in the comp vehicles right? In that case (as you stated) they nor anyone has seen these comp vehicles...Did you contact any of them from the evaluation your carrier gave you? If not, I would if I were you...When I was ''forced'' to use CCC as an evaluation system I routinely called on them, because I would find the information on the report was generally inacurate...This could add a lot of points in your column.

Furthermore, I believe that it is unreasonable to expect that I would be able to be without a vehicle since 2-17-08

I couldn't agree with you more.

Sorry I'm so long winded/frustrated. Its jsut that this has taken an incredible amount of my energy and time and I'm tired.

I don't blame you a bit Kurt...don't apologize for being long winded, I am always, more info (IMO) is better than not enough...I think it's time, after one more try to file a complaint with your states DOI...seriously...

My insurance company wants to take care of the total claim and then go after American Family for their portion of the responsibility of the damage to my vehicle. My carrier told me that that is the way its usually done

and they don't know why American Family ins. paid for their part of the damage w/o contacting them (my carrier

IMO AmFam was just trying to do their job....and close their claim, I don't see that they did anything wrong at all.

Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 01:50 am Post Subject:

My carrier says no because they have to physically see the vehicle. Why?

I agree with that, they cannot properly evaluate your vehicle without physcially seeing it..Think about it the other way around...if they were telling you your vehicle was worth 2k and never laid eyes on it you'd have a fit right? And you should. Did you talk with your carrier when you told them you wished to invoke (is it envoke or invoke? Confused ) the apprasial clause? Does it say in your policy that you two have to agree on the appraiser and that they will share the cost? Or did you hire the appraiser then till them you wished to invoke the clause?

I did invoke the appraisal clause and was told to obtain an appraiser who should contact my Ins. Carrier with their results. I signed a contract with one and they provided my Ins. carrier with their findings but my Ins. carrier said they had to physically see the vehicle. My Ins. carrier said they get an appraiser and I get an appraiser who then discuss their findings and see if they can meet somewhere on the cars value and if they cannot then an umpire steps in and makes the decision and the decision is final. If I loose then I pay the all the costs for my appraiser their appraiser and the umpire .

My Ins. carrier did inspect my vehicle.
I would say you are correct in saying that the dispute is with the valuation of the comparison vehicles.
Who do you want me to contact to determine accuracy of the vehicle info? The CCC or the vehicle sellers?

Sorry I'm so long winded/frustrated. Its jsut that this has taken an incredible amount of my energy and time and I'm tired.

What do you want me to try one more time?

They are correct this is the way it is generally handled....But do they refuse to handle it separately Kurt? Have you ask that they only issue payment for ''their'' part of the damage and allow you to settle the PD with AmFam?

I spoke to my agent about this and he said he has never heard of it being done this way. My agent went on to compare my accident to an accident in the fog on a bridge where there are multiple cars involved and you really cannot determine who is responsible for what and how much damage. My agent then stated its just not realistic.

Alright, I'm on vacation for 4 days .... thank GOD! I need a little R&R. I'll revisit this topic on Tuesday. Thanks, Kurt

Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 12:06 pm Post Subject:

Who do you want me to contact to determine accuracy of the vehicle info? The CCC or the vehicle sellers?

I always contacted the actual owners/sellers....and went over all details, ie options, prior damage, condition etc...

What do you want me to try one more time?

After you have talked with the owners of the comp vehicles if there are differences than either what is on the report, or from your vehicle...and have they or thier independent appraiser submitted their report? If so what was that value? What I meant by one more try...was after getting all this information to them, if nothing changes regarding the value then I would contact the DOI, or if you are sick of this (and I don't blame you a bit) then go ahead and file the complaint now...they (your carrier) will only have a certain amount of time to respond to this complaint, just be sure that all of your hard work and documentation is in the hands of the DOI so they get a full scope of this ridiculous failure of your carrier to budge...

Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 01:34 pm Post Subject:

Lori,

I see only one of the 3 vehicles used in the "Local Market comparable Vehicles Detail" has a phone number. However, I do see that each of the vehicles they used are sedans and not wagons like mine. Sedan value differs than wagon value largely due to the fact that 5,600 sedans were imported while fewer than 980 wagons came into the U.S. I will post this in my complaint to the State Insurance Commissioner.

Another question. The "Local Market Comparable Vehicles Detail" uses various adjustments to obtain a value of my vehicle. One of the adjustments is called "baseline adjustment". It defined as follows, "Baseline adjustments are made when a comparable vehicle's condition varies from that of a typical vehicle". I have the same amount subtracted from each comparison vehicle and I'm not sure why? If anything something should be added to each vehicle because they are using sedans as comparable vehicles instead of wagons. Any ideas?

And, I have just accumulated 8 relatively recent purchase orders from the Nice Cars Co. out of Bellingham, WA who is the largest dealer in the US specializing in the sale of the type of vehicle I have. The purchase orders show sales of Passat TDI wagons for between $8,800 to 17,750 dollars. I have been able to accomplish what my insurance company couldn't or refused to accomplish. I'm going to include copies of the purchase orders in my complaint to the state insurance Commissioner.

Another question. I stated that I would be invoking the appraisal clause, can I back out of it now? My insurance carrier said I would have to get my appraiser first and then send them their results and then they would look at it to see if they would proceed from that point. When they said this, it made me think that I have to pay for my appraiser but they had the option once they obtained my appraiser's information as to whether or not they wanted to continue or if they just wanted to pay me at that time. Does not seem fair! Anyway, I would like to tell my insurance carrier that I am not interested in pursuing the appraisal clause at this time and would like them to review the purchase orders I had sent to them as proof of the value of my vehicle. As of this time they have not responded to any of the proof of vehicle sales I have provided them with.

I am ready to sent all this information but am wondering if there is anything else I want to send as well.

Thank you very much for all your time.

Kurt

Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 10:40 am Post Subject:

However, I do see that each of the vehicles they used are sedans and not wagons like mine

Good catch on all of these,,,,see it really can make a difference when you look these things over top to bottom, i can almost gaurantee the adjuster hasn't...you may want to call them again and give them all the discreptancys and see if they want to look at it again....up to you...

If anything something should be added to each vehicle because they are using sedans as comparable vehicles instead of wagons. Any ideas?

No I don't know other than I agree seems that they should've been added...Is there a number on there anywhere to call the company (ccc or whomever prepares it?) for clarification ? Maybe all the way at the bottom or in the area that says something like, ''how this report is prepared'' etc?

Another question. I stated that I would be invoking the appraisal clause, can I back out of it now?

I don't see why not since they said this...

My insurance carrier said I would have to get my appraiser first and then send them their results and then they would look at it to see if they would proceed from that point

When they said this, it made me think that I have to pay for my appraiser but they had the option once they obtained my appraiser's information as to whether or not they wanted to continue or if they just wanted to pay me at that time. Does not seem fair!

No, it really doesn't I'd get a straight answer from them ''who's paying for this?''

Anyway, I would like to tell my insurance carrier that I am not interested in pursuing the appraisal clause at this time and would like them to review the purchase orders I had sent to them as proof of the value of my vehicle. As of this time they have not responded to any of the proof of vehicle sales I have provided them with.

Don't forget the evaluation mistakes....I would call them and tell them all the info I had, and that I was sending it to them, and that I expect an answer within ''x'' amount of time. (10 days should be plenty)....and if they are not interested in reviewing it, then I will have no choice but to file a complaint with the DOI, it is absolutely absurd that you have to do all of this work and they are doing none to help, be sure and point out (after you have contact the preparer of the evaluation, if there is no phone number ask the adjuster for it)....and that it is THEIR basis for value determination and they can't see that the information is incorrect for refuse to adjust it!

I am ready to sent all this information but am wondering if there is anything else I want to send as well

I think it important that you talk with someone at the company that prepared this report..(not the person that prepared it there is no person that did that, but someone there that can explain it and go over it with you etc).they (ins carrier) could've contacted them and had them do another one, and look closer into this one....but clearly they didn't want to...make sure you have the name of the person you talk to date/time etc....and what they had to say....That's about it, you need to have a good understanding from the 'source' how this was completed, and the mistakes in it addressed. Also as I said I would give them a time line.

Please let us know...

Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 09:11 pm Post Subject:

I asked this question, via email, of my insurance claim representative's supervisor who I've been conversing with;

"Amy,

Who can I contact to ask about the preparation of my
"Local Market Camparable Vehicles Detail" report #
39075333? I have two immediate questions;

1) How did the "Baseline Adjustment" portion of the
CCC report deduct $1,067 dollars from my vehicle's
value out of each comparison vehicle utilized in the
"Local Market Camparable Vehicles Detail" report?

2) Why did the CCC "Local Market Camparable Vehicles
Detail" report utilize only Passat sedans and not
wagons in their report?

Please let me know.

Thanks, Kurt"

Her reply was;

"Kurt the report uses what is available in the area to compare. When
your appraiser reviews the vehicle they will use the same estimating
system and ccc evaluation. Please contact me when these are complete
so
we can move forward.

Thank you"

Obviously, no information was provided for me to work with. This is a good example of the type of responses I've been receiving.

Now What?

Thanks, Kurt

Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 10:42 am Post Subject:

Yeah that's alot of happy talk...Kurt you saw (I take it) no number on the evaluation? I haven't used CCC for about five years, but when I did there was on the print out an area where CCC would provide the vehicle owner a free search for a replacement vehicle. Do you see (atleast) that anywhere? If call that number and see if whomever answers will give you the number to call re: who to talk to about the preperation of the report, I'll do some checking too....If any adjusters on the board have the number (stilll using CCC)...how about providing it...

Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 12:52 pm Post Subject:

I did search for a phone number on this 7 page report. The only thing it provides is a fax number for the insurance company to fax the completed settlement form to.

Kurt

Posted: Sun May 18, 2008 11:15 am Post Subject:

ok kurt i'll see what i can find for you..i think you in the mean while should shoot her a note back and ask only, ''please provide me the phone number to someone at CCC that explain to me in detail how this report was prepared and the difference/discrepencys that you cannot explain to me. This has nothing at all to do with whether or not I hire another appraiser, I at this conjucture want clarity on this report'' or something like that don't go into the details of the report unless she asks again, but stress that you want to talk with someone at CCC that can fully explain how this report was prepared.....I'll see what i can find (number wise).

Posted: Sun May 18, 2008 12:55 pm Post Subject:

Well Kurt I found their web site....here it is

http://www.cccis.com/portal/page/portal/CCCISPagegroup

Waded thru it (it's a sales site mostly)...found the following numbers and info, you might start with one, and continue hopefully you will get someone that can get you to the correct department and answer EXACTLY how the evaluation was compiled as well as the particular question you have about your evaluation...please let us know what you find out..

800-637-8511-this number is for tech. support
800.621.8070-this number is for sales
800.523.8924-this number is for training

Please direct all media and public relations inquiries to:

John Harris
CCC Information Services Inc.
222 Merchandise Mart Plaza
Suite 900
Chicago, IL 60654
312.229.2693 (direct)
312.229.2659 (fax)
jharris@cccis.com

Auto accident in WI - 3 vehicles

Total Comments: 33

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