by Guest » Sat Nov 03, 2007 02:07 am
First, I would like to thank you all for providing this forum and taking your time to help us with the auto claim questions. I was involved in the accident and tried to find out about the process and found this web site. I read almost all the threads and found them very helpful...
Any way, I was rear-ended and the other driver was at-fault. Most damages are on the rear bumper. It also broke the reinforce bar behind the bumper cover. This morning, I brought the car to the insurance shop to evaluate the damage. The claim adjuster took almost two hours to review the damage and prepare the estimate. There were already some scratches on the rear bumper before the accident and the adjuster told me that he had to deduct its cost from the estimate. So, my first question is he allowed to do that? Is that a common practice? They have to re-paint the whole bumper anyway. So, Why should it matter if there were other scratches there or not?
But the part made me really unhappy with the estimate is the Claim adjuster try to drive down the cost by using the junk yard parts quotes. Because of the damage the bumper cover and the reinforce bar must be replaced. He listed the cover for only $124 and the reinforce bar for only $100! I asked him why they were so cheap? He showed me the junk yard web site (car-part.com), and used the lowest quote on the part for his estimate!!! Is that legal? Should the shop be supposed to use the new parts?
Any way, because of that tactics, he made the estimate really low. I think it is only half of what it should cost. What option do I have if I believe the estimate is unfair? I asked him if I brought it to another shop and had higher estimate, wouldthey give me the check for the difference? He said no, not to me. He said his insurance company only pay the difference to the shop only if the shop actually is fixing the car, open it up and can prove the additional cost. He said anything else will be viewed only as estimates and will not be paid!
Because the car is a little old, I do not plan to have the bumper fixed just for the sake of its look. I am likely to cash the check and use it to fix something else for the car (tune the engine..). However, I do feel ripped off by the low estimate with a bunk of junk yard parts... I just wonder if there is a way to get a fair estimate somewhere and the insurance company have to accept it and pay the difference to the car owner. It looks like that if the owners plan to cash the check, we have to accept what the adjusters of the insurance companies offers?
BTW, I live in Virginia.
Thanks for any advice.
Any way, I was rear-ended and the other driver was at-fault. Most damages are on the rear bumper. It also broke the reinforce bar behind the bumper cover. This morning, I brought the car to the insurance shop to evaluate the damage. The claim adjuster took almost two hours to review the damage and prepare the estimate. There were already some scratches on the rear bumper before the accident and the adjuster told me that he had to deduct its cost from the estimate. So, my first question is he allowed to do that? Is that a common practice? They have to re-paint the whole bumper anyway. So, Why should it matter if there were other scratches there or not?
But the part made me really unhappy with the estimate is the Claim adjuster try to drive down the cost by using the junk yard parts quotes. Because of the damage the bumper cover and the reinforce bar must be replaced. He listed the cover for only $124 and the reinforce bar for only $100! I asked him why they were so cheap? He showed me the junk yard web site (car-part.com), and used the lowest quote on the part for his estimate!!! Is that legal? Should the shop be supposed to use the new parts?
Any way, because of that tactics, he made the estimate really low. I think it is only half of what it should cost. What option do I have if I believe the estimate is unfair? I asked him if I brought it to another shop and had higher estimate, wouldthey give me the check for the difference? He said no, not to me. He said his insurance company only pay the difference to the shop only if the shop actually is fixing the car, open it up and can prove the additional cost. He said anything else will be viewed only as estimates and will not be paid!
Because the car is a little old, I do not plan to have the bumper fixed just for the sake of its look. I am likely to cash the check and use it to fix something else for the car (tune the engine..). However, I do feel ripped off by the low estimate with a bunk of junk yard parts... I just wonder if there is a way to get a fair estimate somewhere and the insurance company have to accept it and pay the difference to the car owner. It looks like that if the owners plan to cash the check, we have to accept what the adjusters of the insurance companies offers?
BTW, I live in Virginia.
Thanks for any advice.
Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 05:24 am Post Subject:
Let me put this into perspective... you want brand new 2008 parts to replace parts that are how old (age of your car)? Instead the insurance company is going to replace your xx old parts with parts that are exact duplicate and the same age. How is that wrong?
Many vehicles are totalled because of damage confined to certain areas. The other areas of the vehicle are in perfect condition. Those are the parts being used. If you want to put 2008 parts on in place of the same age parts you had, you can... you just need to pay the difference as you'd be getting something better then what you had. These are not parts from vehicles that have been sitting around in a field for 10 years. Salvage companies go out to auctions and buy these vehicles, remove the parts and stick them on shelves for purchase. They are _very_ good parts. If they are not, a body shop would send them back and not use them.
Too jump back to your 1st question... no, a good appraiser would not deduct for prior scratch's if they had to paint the part anyway. It's really just rude. Their thought on this is that your getting something more then what you had before. That is, you has a bumper with scratches on it and now it's going to look brand new. Same as if the bumper had a big dent in it. I say "rude" as it's fair but a few scratches? Most appraisers won't take anything on those. It's normal to take betterment on something like a dent though. Granted, if you bumper was _really_ scratched up, I can see applying a little betterment but not much.
If you took your car to 5 repair centers they would give you 5 different repair costs for the same repairs. Why is that? You can take the appraisers estimate to any of those same 5 shops and they would repair the vehicle for the amount listed (and do the same work). Trust me... despite all the complicated technology used to estimate repairs to a vehicle, it can still differ depending on the person writing it up. It's very complicated.
Everything you mentioned is perfectly legal and fair.
Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 08:38 am Post Subject:
Hi Geek, check out the following thread. See if it helps.
http://www.ampminsure.org/start/aftermarketparts.html
Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 09:32 am Post Subject:
Good Morning Geek and welcome;
They have to re-paint the whole bumper anyway. So, Why should it matter if there were other scratches there or not?
If they were repairing your cover, then it would've been correct for them to write 'related prior damage' on the cover, then would've been your option to pay for the additional 'repair' (related prior-means in the same area of repair), or not, and just have it painted over which still would've been better than you had although not a quality repair. If your cover needs replacement because of this accident, NOT because of the prior loss, then there should be not betterment on the cover regardless of the prior damage..Also if he is replacing it with an LKQ bumper assy (which you indicate he is), then generally (again) there is no betterment taken. If the replacement is due primarily to the prior damage that is why he is charging you betterment (spydered maybe? would require complete stripping?) And yes, a cover can be repairable when a rebar is distroyed. I don't know that I'd call it rude, more than likely inexperience, especially since you say it took him two hours to write a bumper replacement estimate. Or maybe how was your attitude with him? Even adjusters are human, and if you were giving him a hard time, it might've been something he chose, NOT to overlook (the betterment).But the part made me really unhappy with the estimate is the Claim adjuster try to drive down the cost by using the junk yard parts quotes
I really don't understand your 'unhappiness' about this, tcope explained this pretty well. I'd ask you if your vehicle were totaled, and the hood is in good condition would you see any problem with someone with same year/make putting it on their vehicle? Of course not. And the part that makes me 'unhappy' is you freely say you're not replacing anything they are paying you for anyway! Let me warn you about something. You say the rebar is 'broken' you don't tell us the year/make, but if this rebar is damage, you are putting people in your vehicle at risk. The rebar is meant to absorb the impact from the rear. You know it's damaged and needs replacement, it will not 'do it's job' any longer, (absorb rearend impact keeping it from the passenger compartment).What option do I have if I believe the estimate is unfair?
File it with your carrier if you have collision coverage. Or actually fix the car, then when in shop under repair if the part is substandard or not available they will contact the adjuster and request a supplement as he explained. You really have no 'beef' since he has paid you the fair price to repair it and you aren't even repairing it.Your adjuster has not done anything wrong, illegal or unethical from what you have discribed.
Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 09:42 am Post Subject:
There is nothing wrong in using salvage or recycled parts for car repair, specially, when it is quite old. But there is a hitch, salvage parts may not meet the standard you want. These are not CAPA certified and are also not tested for safety before being used in the car. Therefore, the concern for safety is always associated with the recycled parts.
However, they will definitely save some dime for you.
Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 11:39 am Post Subject:
HUH?
These are not CAPA certified and are also not tested for safety before being used in the car.
Used parts are OEM parts, they CANNOT be CAPA certified! CAPA certification is only available on Aftermarket NON-OEM parts. " The CAPA program provides consumers, auto body shops, part distributors and insurance adjusters with an objective method for evaluating the quality of certified parts and their functional equivalency to similar parts manufactured by automotive companies."The used parts (related to the OP) were tested by the Orignal Equipment Manufactor at the time of production. Salvaged, and Recycled parts are OEM parts.
Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 06:58 pm Post Subject:
After talked to friends and relatives for safety concern, I decided to bring the car to 2 repair shops recommended by them this morning. Both did the estimate pretty quick, just about 30-40 minutes. As expected, the two estimates are higher from 25 - 30%. I now decide to have my car repaired at one of the shop as I was told that they had experience dealing with the insurance company. This is also the one highly recommended by my friends.
tcope, I don't want the 2008 part in my car as I know it is impossible. I did not make it clear about my unhappiness in my first message about the junk yard part: that is about the quality control. How do you know if that part is in good condition? Thanks andy007 for pointing out the thread and "Guest" that felt my concern. If you go to car-part.com, search for rebar, you will see they are listed from $100-$450 with different conditions. So, when you are appraiser, please tell me, which one should you choose to make it fair? Yes, choose the lowest one to make you look good to your company.
At this time, I can conclude that to make it fair, the car must be repaired, and that is what I am going to do, to make myself in peace.
Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 12:12 am Post Subject:
When a salvage yard bids a price, or part there are different 'scores'. An insurance company will only put on ''insurance quality'' (yes, that is a classification, maybe not on this website, but when you call them to source it) part. If the shop receives a substandard part, or one that isn't in the condition that was quoted they will call the adjuster and he will likely come out inspect the part, then either authorize a reman or new rebar or whatever the part is, the shop isn't gonna mess with this. The adjuster explained all of that to you per your first post. Most insurance companies will not use an a/m rebar, unless of course it is capa certified, my company will not use ANY structural a/m parts, reman yes, a/m no, that is just a company guide line, I personally don't have trouble with a capa certified one).
You are doing the correct thing by repairing this vehicle. The 'fair' thing is for him to write to repair your vehicle in preloss condition, the most cost effective way he can. And he did. Incidently I am an auto damage appraiser and have been for many many years, with more certifications than I can count. And I'm telling you I would personally have zero problem with putting a used bumper assembly on my own vehicle. Again, if it comes in subpar the shop won't use it.
Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 05:49 am Post Subject:
I agree with Lori (and if she wants, she is more then welcome to write up some of my apprasials... I don't have a clue)... the parts the insurance company allows for are going to be in close (if not) perfect condition. Certainlly no worse then was on the vehicle. Thousands of vehicles are totaled out every day in every part of the US. Most because of damge confined to one area. The other areas are _perfect_. It's _these_ parts that an insurance company allows. Not that old vehicle rusting out in a junk yard lot. They are stripped down and the repainted to match. The paint treatments put on vehicles these days are far better at preventing the rust we use to see on 20 year old vehicles.
As mentioned... "recycled" parts are used OEM parts.
OP, you _really_ DO need to take your vehicle to a shop you feel is going to do good work! You need to feel good about the work they are going to do. I can't stress that enough. Now... that shop is going to repair the vehicle for the same amount written on the apprasiers estimate (as long as they use the same parts) but you should not be concerned about that. You just need to know that they are going to do the best job possible.
Posted: Sat May 24, 2008 07:02 am Post Subject: Its great that you shared this one with us..
Hi Boyd,
Its great that you have shared this one with us!
We have shifted your post to the following thread to generate a better user-response:
http://www.ampminsure.org/auto/disputed-claim.html
Regards,
Lakemen
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