by Emp » Mon Aug 18, 2008 11:53 pm
Hello,
I've just found this forum and I must say that there certainly is a wealth of information here. I hope that I'll be able to contribute as much as I'm learning.
I've used the search function and so far I've not found an adequate answer to my question.
Here's the scenario:
I was hit from behind in my '03 BMW while sitting stopped in traffic. The negligent party is at fault as per the police report. He's also uninsured. That means that my claim is filed with my insurance company (USAA) as an Uninsired Motorist Claim.
Since I'm pretty new in the local BMW community, I've asked the car club members to recommend a repair shop for my baby. As is my right, I selected a shop based on enthusiast testimonials and a look at some of their work, then took my car in to get an estimate.
The estimate came back just over $10K to fix the rear quarterpanel, trunk, bumper, trim, etc. Then the USAA adjuster took a look at the car and came back with a quote just under $7k to fix it. The discrepancy, according to USAA, is that the shop parts prices are higher than USAA thinks they should be and the labor is more expensive than they're willing to pay. This sounds like complete nonsense to me; if the labor and parts at this shop were far more expensive than any other shop, how would they stay in business? I have just received both quotes in writing so I'll be going over them as soon as I can. One interesting thing of note is that there are 11 fewer line items on the USAA quote versus the body shop quote. Another difference is that the shop wants to charge me for labor tax, and USAA hasn't included that (or it doesn't appear to at this time) on their quote.
I don't really know how to proceed from here. I would like my car to be fixed at this shop due to the quality of work they do, but I don't really think that I should be paying 1/3 of the cost to do so, when the accident was through no fault of my own.
Does anyone have any advice as to how to go about getting my insurance company to pony up the cash to fix my car to my satisfaction? Failing that, and ideas as to how I should proceed with this?
Thanks in advance.
Emp
I've just found this forum and I must say that there certainly is a wealth of information here. I hope that I'll be able to contribute as much as I'm learning.
I've used the search function and so far I've not found an adequate answer to my question.
Here's the scenario:
I was hit from behind in my '03 BMW while sitting stopped in traffic. The negligent party is at fault as per the police report. He's also uninsured. That means that my claim is filed with my insurance company (USAA) as an Uninsired Motorist Claim.
Since I'm pretty new in the local BMW community, I've asked the car club members to recommend a repair shop for my baby. As is my right, I selected a shop based on enthusiast testimonials and a look at some of their work, then took my car in to get an estimate.
The estimate came back just over $10K to fix the rear quarterpanel, trunk, bumper, trim, etc. Then the USAA adjuster took a look at the car and came back with a quote just under $7k to fix it. The discrepancy, according to USAA, is that the shop parts prices are higher than USAA thinks they should be and the labor is more expensive than they're willing to pay. This sounds like complete nonsense to me; if the labor and parts at this shop were far more expensive than any other shop, how would they stay in business? I have just received both quotes in writing so I'll be going over them as soon as I can. One interesting thing of note is that there are 11 fewer line items on the USAA quote versus the body shop quote. Another difference is that the shop wants to charge me for labor tax, and USAA hasn't included that (or it doesn't appear to at this time) on their quote.
I don't really know how to proceed from here. I would like my car to be fixed at this shop due to the quality of work they do, but I don't really think that I should be paying 1/3 of the cost to do so, when the accident was through no fault of my own.
Does anyone have any advice as to how to go about getting my insurance company to pony up the cash to fix my car to my satisfaction? Failing that, and ideas as to how I should proceed with this?
Thanks in advance.
Emp
Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 08:12 pm Post Subject:
What State are you in? In California for example you can file an online Dept. Of Insurance complaint. Usually this resolves the matter quickly as it costs roughly $1000 for an insurance company to respond. What does the nearest BMW dealer charge per hour. Probably the same or more. Is the shop USAA recommends BMW certified? Probably not as certification is actually more a gimmick than anything else unless you have an aluminum frame, but that is a topic for another thread. Ask USAA where they come up with $48.00 per hour and if they tell you they have surveyed the shops in the area ask to see that survey and then do your own survey. Don't include the USAA shop in your survey as they give discounts for USAA referrals oftertimes more than $10.00 per labor hour. You need to start doing everything in writing with your adjuster and advise them that you will be doing a post repair diminished value inspection.
Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 09:33 pm Post Subject:
Where to start with the last post.... how about the bottom,
The OP is insured with USAA as such, diminishment of value claim is almost an uncertainty (i.e it's a contractual agreement not liability). It's been mentioned before... please provide some reference showing that preferred shops offer a discount on labor. It just does not happen. USAA is really under no obligation to provide any "survey". Most of the time it's done by calling shops in the area. This is what the OP is going to do. $1000 to answer a DOI complaint? Where did you pull this one from? Staff answer those complaints and they are paid a salary. So it really does not cost anything. I could see USAA spending an hour or two to answer the complaint. I'm pretty sure those people are not paid $500/hour.
When it's shown that many other repair shops in the area charge $48/hour are you going to recommend the OP to file complaints against the shop for over-charging customers?
Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 10:11 pm Post Subject:
I have called 6 shops in the area, all recommended by BMW in my city. All cite work rates around $56-$58/hr. I responded to my appraiser with this information and his argument was that the rates quoted to me were the standard "off the street" rates and that USAA has negotiated the $48 rate with every one of them, save the shop I chose.
I called the shop and asked to speak to the original person who made my estimate, but he's out for a week. Another employee should be getting back to me soon. I plan to tell them that they need to work with my insurance if they want to keep my business. I don't care about the history or bad blood between them, and that USAA will pay the teardown and diagnostic fees to get my car to another shop. Hopefully they'll be willing to play ball.
tcope, thanks so much for your attention and help. This forum really is a great resource.
Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 11:19 pm Post Subject:
USAA's shop rate should not even be mentioned in the same breath as a shop's door rate (regular rate). Find out what the shop USAA recommends door rate is and you can calculate for yourself the cost of purchasing work from USAA. Remember DRP (direct repair) rates have no bearing on the PREVAILING RATE. Start using their insurance gibberish for your benefit and they will soon realize that you are not one to be messed with. Get that D.O.I. complaint filed ASAP as there is nothing worse than a D.O.I. complaint in the eyes of a claims manager. Heads will roll if someone drops the ball in the face of a D.O.I. complaint. Be sure to mention getting the D.O.I. involved with everyone you talk with and follow up with a letter to that person memorializing the telephone conversation. If that adjuster fails to properly document the file and bring the consequence of D.O.I. complaint to his/her superior your not so friendly adjuster will be out of a job. They will eventually pay to have your vehicle repaired properly without discounts but it does take a bit of work on your part.
Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 11:26 pm Post Subject:
Unfortunately I have to go out of town for a few days and I won't have access to the internet. Thanks for all this information guys, I'll check back in a few days.
Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 12:01 am Post Subject:
Get that D.O.I. complaint started. In some states the insurance company whom the complaint was filed against must pay the Dept. of Insurance for the cost of the investigation. If USAA feels that they are the least bit negligent in the handling of your claim you can see why they will immediately back off, pay your claim and close your file. Once they agree to your terms you can cancel the complaint. When an insurance company says no that is just the begining of the process. Be sure to let the claims MANAGER know of your intentions. He/she will probably rips the file out of the adjusters hands so fast you won't believe it. Once the file moves up the ladder it is amazing how nice and pleasant the managers and V.P.'s will be to you. You see it was all just a little mistake :lol:
Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 12:03 am Post Subject:
I responded to my appraiser with this information and his argument was that the rates quoted to me were the standard "off the street" rates and that USAA has negotiated the $48 rate with every one of them, save the shop I chose.
I don't know if I'm buying that one. It sounds to me like he was just blowing smoke. I'm not saying that the shops won't honor the $48/hour charge... just that I doubt they have "ageed" to it before hand. I know some shops around here that put $50/hour on their estimates. I write it up at $42/hour and some carriers pay $40. These same shops will go by what I have written but they have not "agreed" to this before hand. As shops honor $42/hour, I can show that most every shop can make the repairs for this amount.Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 12:19 am Post Subject:
If you pull your vehicle they will want to be paid the towing charge and tear down fees. If they want to be nasty, they might try to charge you storage (I doubt it though).
They may also try the whole ''retocking fee'' ...If you have made pretty much made up your mind...or are thinking about it...call them and tell them not to order parts, or cancel them NOW....bmw parts are a giant pain in the butt....I can all but guarantee they will be two weeks arriving atleast...so shouldn't be an issue getting them stopped...but you need to move quickly....is this shop a dealership by chance?There is usually one or two shops in an area that have thrown up a brick wall and absolutely will not even (in some cases) allow ins adjusters on their property or certain adjusters...unfortunate for the vehicle owner....
I'm so sorry you are going thru this...Does USAA have a direct repair program that they (USAA) will warrant the repairs? If so think it over that's two (should be) warrantys to fall back on if necessary....
Please let us know if we can help in any other way and how this came out...
Could you share the city and state you are in please, I ask because if I remember correctly there is a BMW repair facility that is in a court battle with a carrier right now...which may explain some of this...
Also 'door' rates are usually NEVER charged to ANY insurance carrier whether they are a direct repair facility or not...Shops know that the carriers have done the research to find the usual and customary rates for a given area...and that is what is owed....As an example I know a couple of high end vehicle body shops (bmw, audi, etc) whose posted door rates are 65 (body rate) an hour, when the area is 46 per hour...when I ask about this, the shop manager says, 'yeah ignore that we only get that for warranty work, and walk ins'...this shop was not a DRP and I ask (didn't tell them) what is your true rate that you charge to other carriers, his answer? 46 an hour... :roll:
Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 12:28 am Post Subject:
Get that D.O.I. complaint filed ASAP as there is nothing worse than a D.O.I. complaint in the eyes of a claims manager. Heads will roll if someone drops the ball in the face of a D.O.I. complaint. Be sure to mention getting the D.O.I. involved with everyone you talk with and follow up with a letter to that person memorializing the telephone conversation
Who on earth are we filing the complaint against and why? What has the carrier done thus far? Do you really think we all just shake in our boots at the mention of the DOI? seriously?If that adjuster fails to properly document the file and bring the consequence of D.O.I. complaint to his/her superior your not so friendly adjuster will be out of a job
Is that from experience or what? No one likes DOI complaints they are timelined, but I don't see anyone losing a job or getthing in to any trouble here, and easily answered....if you are talking about rates....while I'm at it that 1k cost to respond to a complaint is just plain untrue, and I'd be interested to hear where you got that info... :cry:They will eventually pay to have your vehicle repaired properly without discounts but it does take a bit of work on your part.
Who said there were any discounts?I would however recommend talking to your adjusters immediate supervisor since there is a bad history with this adjuster and this shop....Would be a good idea to get someone without a 'history' if there is anyone....that's just common sense, the shop (and adjuster) may have other motives to not move from their stances, it's human nature....
Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 04:22 am Post Subject:
I'll quickly sum up some answers for you... question, if you took your BMW into 5 different repair centers would you agree that you'd get 5 different repair amounts (if not, try it). As such, why is this? When you have the answer to that question, you will see why the USAA apprasial can be different from one shops estimate. Bottom line is that USAA will obtain an agreed repair price from the shop of your choice.
While you are at it, go to five different restaurants and ask for a ten oz steak dinner. You'll most likely find that the quality of the service, the preparation of the meat, the flavor, the PRICE will all be the same, right? And you should be able to pay exactly the same for that steak dinner regardless of whether a trained chef prepared it or an steakhouse pimple faced eddy grilled it in it's own fat, right?
Since you chose your shop based on recommendations of people you respect because of the appreciation of the quality of the car you selected, would it not make sense to consider that they only do quality work with genuine parts? But then you could just get steakhouse eddie's repair version with cheap parts, and inexperienced non certified repairers that can not offer a BMW warranty that stays with the car rather than an insurer warranty that ends at the transfer of ownership.
When your insurer names that one repairer that they guarantee will repair your car for that price, put that shop on notice that their finished work will be inspected by a certified bmw dealer repair shop. It's quite possible their tune will change and all of a sudden they many no longer be able to repair for the agreed upon price that an insurer claims they must obtain. I have yet to see a policy that says an insurer must obtain an agreed price, most policy's state that they are contractually obligated to pay for repairs that will return your vehicle to the pre loss condition or similar language. There is only one state that I am aware of that requires a shop to negotiate a repair, and that is Massachusetts.
You should, if you elect to change repairers, make the insurer select the shop and hold them liable since they claim they can restore your vehicle to preloss condition as they are contractually obligated to do for the amount of their estimate. Then see if the certified dealer would be willing to inspect the quality of the repairs the insurance company guaranteed were sufficient. It would then be possible to hold the insurer accountable for the quality of repairs and then you may find out that the insurer was possibly looking for the cheapest repair. You may find that the insurer could then be obligated to pay you the amount it would require to re-repair your vehicle to true preloss condition.
Judging by the poster's own survey of shops, it would appear that the insurer is artificially restraining trade or interfering with the market for cost of repairs in a luxury car market by refusing to pay the prevailing rate for that area. You really really need to consider working with the shop that has your best interest in mind and not a shop that simply agrees to an insurers criteria and works for a labor rate that is lower than the prevailing simply to be on that insurer's preferred shop list. You should desire for your shop to be an advocate for your interests and not the insurers in my extremely biased opinion.
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