by Guest » Sat Mar 08, 2008 11:39 am
I have hail damage. My deductible is almost 3K with depreciation, the contractor offered to submit one claim for the amount of damage equal to what I will receive for my claim, then give me a lower estimate because I don't have the 3k for the deductible. Is this fraud? Could I be prosecuted? Should I choose another contractor? Help, I don't want to go to jail!
Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 11:28 am Post Subject:
Fred let's not also forget another part of the OP's post...
Is this fraud? Could I be prosecuted? Should I choose another contractor? Help, I don't want to go to jail!
Clearly the OP see's red flags in what this contractor is suggesting!
As a repairer, Deductibles are not collected
Well not necessarily Fred, I get your point but if the draft is made to you or you and the owner, then all you are actually collecting from the owner is the deductible...When a consumer can not afford a full and proper repair, (for whatever reason) and request a lesser repair in a price range they can afford.... And a repairer agrees to do as good of an repair that they can with what the consumer will pay....... where if the FRAUD??
There is none, however if the lein holder is involved the insured could have some problems on down the road (should the vehicle be repopped)..same with a mortgage company....of course a DRP and whatever they call that for homeowners claims (preferred contractor) then there could be a BIG problem...So in my simple little mind, until the OP clarifies if the contractor is offering to do the same Complete, Quality repair for two different prices or not...
However if the contractor is submitting an inflated bid, to get paid for then does the work (same work) for less this is fraud Fred...same as if a shop submits an over inflated bid, then does the same repair for less (covering deductibles etc) this is fraud....this is totally different than not doing all the repairs....Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 02:19 pm Post Subject:
I wouldn't think there would be fraud if the consumer agrees to lesser repairs as long as it isn't something structual to the house or being claimed later. What if to swollow up the deductible they replaced something that would have cost them $1000 new and bought it for $500 used? If it is an inflated bill from the repair company the OP seems to be talking about I wouldn't walk away..I'd run as fast as I could.
Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 02:27 pm Post Subject:
I wouldn't think there would be fraud if the consumer agrees to lesser repairs
correct, unless the mortgee would come into play on a foreclosure and say, 'hey you were paid to do this...but you did that!' they could be held to pay 'that'...course if they are foreclosed on that is the least of their trouble... :(Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 02:34 pm Post Subject:
Lori,
I'm still going to wait for a response from the OP to clarify.
As a repairer, Deductibles are not collected.
Well not necessarily Fred, I get your point but if the draft is made to you or you and the owner, then all you are actually collecting from the owner is the deductible...
I disagree.
For starters the insurer's payment to their insured should be paid to them and them only. Its their loss, its their settlement, its their Money.
When a consumer contracts with a service provider the *consumer* pays for the services provided.. Period..! That payment could be made up of a combination of monies from a Saving account, a bank loan, an insurance settlement, and winnings from a slot machine. It matters not. That entire payment for services is from the consumer.
Insurer's like to co-mingle (aka confuse) the insurance contact with the repair contract and even the loan contract. There should be a law against this practice.
When a consumer can not afford a full and proper repair, (for whatever reason) and request a lesser repair in a price range they can afford.... And a repairer agrees to do as good of an repair that they can with what the consumer will pay....... where if the FRAUD??
There is none,...
(( thank you for agreeing with my first point ))
...however if the lein holder is involved the insured could have some problems on down the road (should the vehicle be repopped)..same with a mortgage company....
(( being the service provider is not a part of the Auto loan contract nor the Mortgage contract... How does this cause the service provider to commit Fraud?? ))
...of course a DRP and whatever they call that for homeowners claims (preferred contractor) then there could be a BIG problem...
How could that possibly happen?? Since (preferred contractors) are carefully picked from the cream of the crop by the insurers. Or at least that's the impression given by the Insurance industry. (Hey ;) you brought drp into the thread not me. So let that little crack slid, so we can stay on topic)
So in my simple little mind, until the OP clarifies if the contractor is offering to do the same Complete, Quality repair for two different prices or not...
However if the contractor is submitting an inflated bid, to get paid for then does the work (same work) for less this is fraud Fred...same as if a shop submits an over inflated bid, then does the same repair for less (covering deductibles etc) this is fraud....this is totally different than not doing all the repairs
(( thank you for agreeing with my second point ))
OF
until the OP clarifies if the contractor is offering to do the same Complete, Quality repair for two different prices or not...
Which is the reason for every post I've made in this thread. And leads us back to lets not jump to conclusion about that big bad broad Brush called Fraud.
Sincerely
FK,
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Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 06:08 pm Post Subject:
I'm still going to wait for a response from the OP to clarify.
That's great Fred, if we get one, many times this is it one post...so we try and answer the best we can with what we have for other viewers...Lots of people read these threads and get the answers they are looking for and never post a question...For starters the insurer's payment to their insured should be paid to them and them only. Its their loss, its their settlement, its their Money.
Can't Fred the lein holder must be protected they are an owner under the policy as well..If you are not aware of the insurer's requirement to protect the lein holder I can get the policy language for you..or supply your state and I'll check it's wording...not a 'if the insurer wants to' they HAVE to...protect the lein holder..course when they don't and 1/2 repairs are done , then the insurer as well as the insured can be made to pay this claim again, when the vehicle is re-popped..Insurer's like to co-mingle (aka confuse) the insurance contact with the repair contract and even the loan contract. There should be a law against this practice
.IT'S IN THE POLICY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Fred, no one is confusing anyone it's spelled out right there in the contract!!!!!!!!!!!!
(( being the service provider is not a part of the Auto loan contract nor the Mortgage contract... How does this cause the service provider to commit Fraud?? ))
You missed an important part of my post Fred, let me highlight it for you..
...however if the lein holder is involved the insured could have some problems on down the road (should the vehicle be repopped)..same with a mortgage company....
How could that possibly happen?? Since (preferred contractors) are carefully picked from the cream of the crop by the insurers. Or at least that's the impression given by the Insurance industry. (Hey you brought drp into the thread not me. So let that little crack slid, so we can stay on topic)
:wink: Hey even insurance company make mistakes some times in chosing bad body shops! :lol:ok, i dont' know what this means...
OF
until the OP clarifies if the contractor is offering to do the same Complete, Quality repair for two different prices or not...
if they do..
Which is the reason for every post I've made in this thread. And leads us back to lets not jump to conclusion about that big bad broad Brush called Fraud.
Pretty easy to say, 'if this is what you mean, yeah it's fraud', if however 'this' is what you mean it is not..You lost me again with this......
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Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 08:52 pm Post Subject:
Is the contractor crooked.... depends on your view point. Personally, I think its a contractor that is trying to help the OP. Is that a bad thing.. no, but could the OP end up in trouble, sure. These types of things go on in most hail claims. Insured's try to get the highest estimate and then shop for a lower one once the claim is paid off the higher. As an adjuster, I didn't care as long as the claim got closed. It was the insured that had to sleep at night. I know most roofing contractors will give an insured at least a % of their deductible if they can leave a sign in their yard for X amount of time. Once again, I don't care. It doesn't change the fact that if the insured knowly has an estimate turned in for a higher amount then it would cost to repair the damage... it is fraud. This is talking apples for apples, just not leaving some of the damaged unrepaired.
Finally, I still don't know how the contractor is going to hide 3K in an estimate. There is no way the carrier is going to pay $300.00 per square of roofing if the going price is $200.00. Same would go for the siding or anything else damaged.
Lori - That appears to be a picture of Kilroy.... not sure what is meant by it... maybe Fred just likes it.
Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 10:12 am Post Subject:
As an adjuster, I didn't care as long as the claim got closed.
:wink:maybe Fred just likes it.
:lol: :lol:Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 03:21 pm Post Subject:
I went back and reread the original post. It still sounds to me like a "wink-wink,nod-nod" scheme. I think what it all boils down to in the end is pretty self explanitory. The minimum is he may not get caught and will have future premium hikes. The max being if it is truly a scam and it is exposed the policy can be cancelled and they will be subject to criminal prosecution. Guess it would leave plenty of time to wonder "was it worth it?"
Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 04:25 pm Post Subject:
Nothing was *meant* by it, I just like to play around with Text Graphics once in a while.
FK,
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Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 01:12 am Post Subject:
As long as your enjoying it.
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